UNCA Special Collections ; Jewish Businesses in Western North Carolina Oral History Collection OH-JBWNC G65 S7

Stan Golden

A.  My name is Stan Golden.  And I live at 8740 Roswell Road; Atlanta, Georgia.  And I was born on December 4, 1923 in St. Paul, Minnesota.

Q.  And how long did you live there?

 A.  We lived there until l933, in September of 1933, and we left at that time.  And my father worked his way across the country from St. Paul to Los Angeles.  And we lived in Los Angeles for about 6 months—less than that, about 4 months, I guess.  And then we moved to New Orleans; and then from New Orleans, about 3 or 4 months there, we moved to Birmingham. 

The reason for all this moving was that he was a salesman, and when it came time to give up the area he was working in, we moved to another area.  Always with this particular time he was selling the same merchandise.  He was selling a piece of equipment to gasoline stations.  Some people in Chicago had invented this machine and had contacted—prior to our leaving St. Paul, he was a salesman with Harts, Shaffner and Marx, men’s clothing.  And he traveled North and South Dakota, Minnesota and Wisconsin.  When he was contacted by these people in Chicago, they had this machine that they called moto-sway??? which was sold to garages and gasoline stations, so that the—what actually the machine did, was rock the car from side to side so that the springs in the back that need grease, you get grease into the springs when it was rocked up into the air on one side, the springs separated and then they could put the grease in there; and then the other side.  So that’s what he was selling at the time we were doing this particular moving around.  And after Birmingham, we moved to Chicago.  And after about 4 or 5 or 6 months there, we moved back to Los Angeles for two and a half years.  And then from Los Angeles, we moved to East Orange, New Jersey for a few months.  And then we made a stop at Jacksonville, and then back to Birmingham.  And then from Birmingham, we moved to Cincinnati; and then to Cleveland.  And then to Rochester, New York; and then to Winston-Salem; and then to Oakland, California.  And then we went back to St. Paul for about 6 months; and then we moved to Asheville.  And that was the end of this traveling days.

Q.  How old were you when you moved to Asheville?

 A.  Sixteen, I guess.  In December of ’39 I was l6; and we moved to Asheville in February of ’40.  I was a junior in high school at the time.

 Q.  Now all this time that you were moving, was your dad working for that same company?

 A.  No, when we left Los Angeles the second time, he had given up the Moto-sway; and another woman had contacted him about taking a piece of equipment that she had invented.  It was an aluminum frame that was used to block lady’s knit dresses.  It was calibrated so that they could get all the measurements, and sold to dry-cleaning stores, so they could block the dresses back into the shape they were suppose to be in after they were cleaned.  And there were measurements for the size of the arms and lengths and waists and so forth, so that they could calibrate it and get blocked back into the proper form.  And that is what he sold until we moved, until after we moved back to Cleveland. 

My mother’s sister and her husband were living there; and they were in the siding business.  And he and his brother were working for a company; and they talked my father into joining them and going into business for themselves, which was the siding business, which is what we went to Rochester with, and Winston-Salem, and then to Oakland.  And then back to St. Paul.  And then when we moved to Asheville, he had the intention of doing the same thing, selling the siding.  And when he got out into the rural areas, around Canton and that area, people were not only interested in the siding, but they wanted additions on their homes.  They wanted new rooms put onto the houses; so he expanded it, and went into remodeling.  And we did that until after the war started in ’41.  And banking became a little tight and interest rates went up and people couldn’t afford it, so he had to look for something else to do.  And there was a leather jacket factory up for sale.  It was owned by a man by the name of Lou Pollack.  And my father bought the factory from him.  It was on Biltmore Avenue.  And a gentleman by the name of Julius Lowenbien ran the factory and was managing it, and he was a salesman.  He would go out on the road and do the selling; and he would come back and cut the leather jackets and make them and ship them.  So when my father bought it, Julius still remained on the road; and they hired someone else to be the cutter and designer.  And he did that until after the war.  And then he went into manufacturing lady’s suits, coats and dresses.

 Q.  What was the name of the business that was the leather business; and the name of the business that was the dress business?

 A.  Well, originally, it was Highland Manufacturing Company.  And then after the war, he wanted to change the name; and it just became Goldblums, Inc.  Goldblum was our family name at the time, which I shortened, later on, after Betty and I were married.  And then he ran that business until he died.  In December of l956.

Q.  Do you know how it was that they decided to send him to Asheville?

A.  When the three of them—my father, my uncle and his brother—went into business together, we all went to Rochester together.  This was like September of ’38.  And we were all out for Thanksgiving dinner out to a motel.  The weather was fairly decent.  It was cold—it was wintertime of course.  And by the time we came out from dinner, there was 2 feet of snow on the ground.  And they decided that wasn’t a good place to be in the wintertime, in the kind of business they were in.  And so they decided we should go south.  And they divided up, and we went to Winston-Salem, along with my mother’s youngest brother, who was working for them at the time.  He went with us to Winston-Salem.  And my uncle and his brother and their families moved to Atlanta.  And they worked the Atlanta area until just before the war.  And they moved to Lake Charles, Louisiana; and then to Houston.  And we moved to Oakland with the business, which didn’t do too well—it wasn’t a good area, so we moved back to St. Paul.  And they were looking at the map, and just decided Asheville would be a good place to go, that we had been in Winston-Salem.  So that is how we got to Asheville.

Q.  Do you think they knew anyone in Asheville?

 A.  No.  My mother and father left St. Paul and drove to Asheville and got things organized and set up.  My sister and I took the train from St. Paul to Asheville.

 Q.  How long a trip was that?

A.  Overnight.  When we left Los Angeles the second time, my mother and father had left and  gone to East Orange, which is where my aunt and uncle were living at the time.  And they decided—my father decided that they were going to stay there and he would work around that area, so my sister and I took the train from Los Angeles to New York, or Chicago rather, and then drove from Chicago to New York.

 Q. Well, we probably need to backtrack just a little and figure out how many—who were your parents, where did they come from, how did they get to St. Paul, and who were your siblings?

 A.  My mother and father were both born in St. Paul.  Their parents came here from Poland.  The late 1800’s, but because—it had to be the late 1800’s because my mother was the youngest in her family, and she was born in 1899.  And my father was the youngest in his family, and he was born in 1895, in St. Paul.  They mother’s and father’s siblings were all born in St. Paul.  And my father’s family, he had two sisters and one brother.  His brother moved also—he worked for Cats Paw Rubber Heels??? and he was a salesman for them.  And in l934, shortly after we had left Los Angeles the first time, he was transferred to Los Angeles and in charge of the West Coast.  So they lived out there from then on.  He had one sister who also lived in Los Angeles, but she was much older and didn’t have a family, for many years.  And his other sister lived in a little town of Royalton, Minnesota, which was up near St. Cloud.  And her husband ran a general store in Royalton.  They stayed there until l935, and then my uncle and their family moved to Los Angeles.  My uncle and my father’s brother-in-law went to work for him; and he has two sons who also went to work for the company; and they stayed out there and worked for Cats Paw.

 Q.  How many schools did you go to?

A.  About 20.

 Q.  What was that like, moving from school to school?

 A.  Well, in the long run, it wasn’t too bad.  We ran into some areas—when I first started school, since my birthday was December, I started school in January or February—in Minnesota at that time they had two starting-times, in September or February.  They divided the year.  And every place we moved to seemed to have the same arrangement, until we moved to Cincinnati.  I was in the last half of the seventh grade when we moved to Cincinnati.  And the question was:  Do I go back to the first part of the 7th grade?  Or do I go to the 8th grade?  And they put me into the 8th grade, so public school ended at 8th grade and then you went into high school.  So at the time I was in Cincinnati, I was in the 8th grade.  And when the school year was over and we graduated, and I was going to go into high school—which I did when we got into Cleveland.  And actually, as it turned out, when I graduated high school, I was only 17, in Asheville.  And when we moved to Asheville, I was a junior.  And in North Carolina in those days, a junior was in the 10th grade.  Your senior year was the 11th grade.  And they had no 12 years-schools at that time.  But fortunately the school at that time was still accredited; and we were able to get into colleges.

 Q.  Where did you go to college?  Did you go?

 A.  Yes, for a short time I went to Georgia Tech for one semester.  I was taking Architecture, and decided that that wasn’t for me.  And so I came home and waited until the following year, and I went to North Carolina State, and I was studying Textile Management.  And then we had had some people from the Army came around, and talked to everyone who was interested in staying in school, that if we would join what they called the Enlisted Reserve Corps, we would be able to stay in school and not have to go into active duty.  So a lot of us did that.  This was in October, I think, of ’42.  So we were all content with the fact that now we were in the Enlisted Reserve Corps, and we would be able to stay in school and finish.  Well, in February they called up the Enlisted Reserve Corps to active duty.  So that was the end of school at that time.  After I got out of the Army, I didn’t feel like going back to school.  So Betty and I got married, and I went to work.

 Q.   Where were you in the war?

 A.  Well, I had basic training in infantry in Camp Wheeler in Macon, Georgia.  And then there was a program called the Army Specialized Training Program, ASTP, which had several branches you could get into:  engineering, medical, and some others.  Anyhow, I applied for the engineering division; and I was sent to Clemson to take orientation and various exams, to see what my capabilities were.  And from there, I was sent to Boston MIT, and I was at MIT from September until about February, when they disbanded the entire program, except for the medical part.  From there I was sent to Camp Forest, Tennessee, which was in Tullahoma, Tennessee, which was half-way between Chattanooga and Nashville.  And we were sent, the whole school—there were 90 of us—we were all transferred into the 17th Airborne Division, which at that time was a glider division.  They had one battalion of choppers, and the rest of it were glider-troops.  The idea would be to root off all these infantry-men into gliders, which would be towed into the air; and then land in enemy territory, and then everybody would bust out of these gliders and do whatever they were trained to do.  After about a month or so in that division and training, they decided to take about a hundred or 150 of us—there were about 400 ASTP personnel that were transferred into the division from various schools.  After a month or so, they decided to take out about a hundred or so—one of which was my fortune to be—and send into other types of training.  And I was transferred into a medical depot company that was just beginning their basic training with a lot of new draftees. 

 So that is where I went, and I stayed with that.  From there we went to St. Louis, and then to Columbia, South Carolina, to Ft. Jackson.  And then from there, we went to New York to go overseas.  We sailed from New York around the middle of February—we probably set a record of troops being at a POE and the longest, because it was right around the time of the Battle of the Bulge.  And they didn’t need supply troops there, they needed fighting.  And the 17th Airborne Division happened to come through and went out, and their wounded came back before we even left.  We sailed to France, and when we were in France, and Belgium, and Germany; and then we were sent back to Marseilles, and from Marseilles, we went up over a ship.  For 30 days we went to the Philippines.

 Q.  What year did you go to Europe?

 A.  1945, February.  And then we were there until July.  We sailed in July to, we think we were going to Okinawa, but we went through the Panama Canal.  And ten days out of the Pacific—we left Panama—the orange pad??? was over.  They had dropped the Atom Bomb, and there was no need for all these troops to go over to Okinawa, or wherever it was.  We were all diverted to Manila.  And we were in Manila from the end of August in ’45 until February of ’46.  And we were sent home.  We got back in the States right after the first of March, l946.  Betty and I were married the end of March.

 Q.  And what was your exact job in the Army?  Or Navy?

A.  I was transferred into the Medical Depot Company.  I was a medical clerk-typist.  And then when we, before we went to France the first time, I was still a clerk-typist.  And then when we got ready to go to the Philippines, I was a warehouse foreman.  We were a medical depot company and we supplied medical supplies to the various hospitals, and medical implements ???;  and when we were in the Philippines, they had constructed warehouses for us.  These warehouses were very well built. On about 20-foot poles, with a roof and no sides.  And we just had medical supplies just stacked in these warehouses.  We had about 10 warehouses.  We were protected by the Philippine Army, because, being a medical company, we were not allowed to have any firearms in those days.  And so they thought we needed protection from the civilians, who might come and try to steal and loot or whatever. So they had the Philippine Army infantry walking around in these warehouses to protect us.  However, it seems that most of the Philippine army “protectors” had friends on the outside who they wanted to get these supplies to.  And they were stealing us blind.  What could we do, with no firearms, when they had the firearms?  And they would take stuff and throw it over the ten-foot fence we had around us to accomplices outside.   There was nothing too much we could do about it.  They organized an inventory team.  There were four medical depot companies in Manila at this time, that had come from various places.  One came from Australia.  They had been in the Pacific for three years.  And there was ours, and a couple of others that had just come there.  And they had made up an inventory team, so they could see what they had supply-wise, and what they didn’t have.  I was quick to be on that inventory team.  And it turned out that they came up like 10,000 bed sheets short, because these civilians were stealing the bed sheets to make clothing from.  Anything we inventoried, they were short.  But at least they knew where they were.  So that went on for a  couple of weeks,  and we were just back in our own companies.  And we were just getting in and sending out to the various hospitals.  And when we were in Germany, we had three platoons in our company. 

 Two of the platoons were stationed in Bonn, and had a Depot set up there.  And our platoon was sent down to Frankfort.  And we sent up a medical depot in what had been a fire station.  It was much different than our fire stations here.  It had a big house where the men lived, and then in the back, they had individual garages for all the motorized equipment.  There were probably 8 or 10 stall-type garages.  We used that as our warehouse.  What we were doing there, was we had German medical supplies.  We had a team of 15 or 20 guys and a couple of officers that went up to the Austrian border, to a German medical supply depot, to get their stuff and bring it back for us to stock.  And their depot was in a salt mine about 200 feet below ground level.  And they went up there, and it was supposed to have been not a good detail, but it turned out to be a real good detail for the ones that went, because they had some real good experiences up there.  They got caught in some cross-fires.  And they also had some equipment that they were able to take home with them—cameras and such, that were part of the German medical supplies that would have been in our signal corps in our army.  And we had German doctors that were officers in the German army that would come into our warehouse and pick up supplies to take back to the POW’s.  So that they were actually using their own medical supplies, and not ours, to treat their sick POW’s. 

 Q.  So this was before you went to Manila?—when the war was still in Europe?

 A.  Yeah.  We were there—the war in Europe was over in May, and we were still in Frankfort at that time.  And then the war was over shortly after that.  We started our transfer to going to Manila.   From Frankfort, we went up to a little town called Fulga???, which there was a small camp there where we got supplies and things; and then we went down to Marseilles, where we sailed—we were there a couple of weeks, and then we  sailed to Manila.

 Q.  When your service-time was over, what was your rank?

 A.  I was a Staff-Sergeant.

 Q.  Did you experience anti-Semitism in the military?  Were there other Jewish guys in your group?

 A.  When I took Basic Training at Camp Wheeler, most of the—at least in my platoon—most of the guys were Jewish from New York.

 Q.  Did they have any inkling about Jews in the South, or—

 A.  Not too much.  We had Racheshaun—dinner, the Jewish people, and in Macon, dinner for all the Jewish soldiers that wanted to come in Macon.

 Q.  In some building, or somebody’s house?

 A.  In a building.  There were a couple of hundred.  And then in Passover, in ’45, I was in Rimes, France.  And the Jewish families in Rimes had Passover, and there must have been five or six hundred Jewish soldiers that came to that Passover.  The women did all the cooking for everybody.  They did have a Synagogue there, but it was in a big hall.  We encountered a little anti-Semitism among the individuals in our—but it wasn’t anything to complain about.  But, when I was in the medical depot, we had maybe 25% of the troops were Jewish.  We had one Jewish officer who was an optometrist.  We had—this medical depot company was quite different than most service units.  We had 120 men, enlistees, noncommissioned enlisted men, and 8 or 10 officers.  And when we finished our basic training, we ended up with three privates and everybody else was a noncommissioned officer. 

 Q.  So when you came back to Asheville, what mode of transportation did you use to get back to Asheville, and what was on your mind, as you were coming home?

 A.  We were sailed from Manila on a troop ship.  I had three of these so-called voyages, very different, because when we sailed from New York to go to France, we were in a French—it had been a freight ship converted.  And our company, and probably altogether two or three hundred men down in a lower hole in triple-height bunks.  And it was very crowded, and if you got seasick, you had to run up three flights of stairs to get to the railing.  And that was not an enjoyable trip.  When we went from Marseilles to Manila, we were on a cruise ship that had been  converted; and there were four of us in a cabin.  We were above sea level, and it wasn’t too bad.  And then when we came home, we were on a troop ship.  At that particular time, the normal arrangement would be that the enlisted personnel would be in the holes down below deck.  And the junior officers were ordered in an area where there were about 12 and a large rec-room and a very nice little set-up.  And the higher you got in rank, the fewer number of people that were in each cabin; and as it turned out, there were not that many officers going back, so that the first three graders, from Staff Sergeant to Text Sergeant and Master Sergeant were quartered in the junior officers quarters.  So that is how I came back to San Francisco.  And then from San Francisco—I called Betty from there to let her know I was back, and she was at her mother and father’s at Palm Beach—

 Q.  What did she do during the war?

 A.  She went to school.  She was in school when I was in Tullahoma, she was in Nashville in Peabody.  And then she was there—I guess she was at home visiting her parents when I got back.  She was in Palm Beach when I called her.  And then we were there a couple of days in San Francisco, and we took a train to Ft. Bragg, which was where I had gone into the service to start with.  And dropped people off all the way along between San Francisco and down to New Orleans and then on up to Ft. Bragg.  And when I got to Ft. Bragg, we went through our discharge, whatever we had to do.  And my mother and father and sister and Betty all drove down from Asheville to pick me up.

 Q.  So at what point did you and Betty decide you were going to be married?

 A.  When I got back.  Actually at one point, we wanted to get married before I went overseas.  But our parents didn’t think that was such a good idea.  I was discharged I think on the 10th of March—something like that.  And we got married on the 24th.   In Asheville at the Grove Park Inn.  Of course her mother and father were in Florida, and she had one sister living in Chicago, one in Jacksonville and one in Asheville.  Her oldest sister lived in Asheville.  And so through long distance, the sisters arranged for the wedding.  What was going to be done, and they did a nice job in the time they had to do it.  And the reason we got married when we did, was because Passover was coming up, and that was the one time we could have gotten married before Passover.  So we had to get married, go on our honeymoon and be back home before Passover, 10 days later.

 Q.  Where did you go on your honeymoon?

 A.  We went to Mobile, Alabama, the Loxley.  My father had a friend who was an attorney in Atlanta who insisted on making arrangements for us in Mobile at a very fine hotel on the beach, the Gulf Coast.  And so we were going there, and we drove from Asheville, to Mobile; and we  got to the hotel around 6 o’clock, or something like that, after having gone through a heavy rainstorm, as we now know they have in this area in the springtime.  At one point the road was covered with water—you couldn’t tell what side—where the road was on either side, it was just water.  And we got to this hotel, a very fine hotel, and I went in and told them I had a reservation  and gave them the name, you know, “I’m sorry, we don’t have one in your name”.  I said well, what about this lawyer’s name?  And they said “No, we don’t have it.”  And we did not have a room there.  We were just as well off, because looking around, these were all old people there, sitting around in their tuxedoes, and very stiff.  So we had remembered seeing a hotel or a lodge that we passed on the way down there, so we went back there and we were able to get a room there.  The reason they didn’t have a reservation for us, all they had to do was see my name and my face.  LAUGHTER 

 Q.  Was the lawyer who was suppose to have made a reservation for you there, was he Jewish?

 A.  Yes. 

 Q.  And was that a joke?

 A.  I don’t know.  I never saw him again.

 Q.  Maybe he wasn’t such a good friend of your father’s…

 A.  We went back and got a room there, and the next day we were out taking pictures

in front of the place.  And another couple came up, and said if you will take our picture, we will take yours.  And so we got to be friendly.  Turned out to be the fact that they were married the same day we were, in Lafayette, Indiana.  And we remained friends with them for over 50 years, until she died.  Then we kept up with him, and then we lost track of him.   They came and visited us in Lansing, and we visited them in Lafayette.  And then after we had the car repaired, after Betty had an accident—LAUGHTER—on our honeymoon—fortunately, they had a car and we were able to get around with them in their car.  And then when our car was repaired, the four of us went to New Orleans for a few days before we went on our way home. 

 Q.  So then where did you work when you came back?

 A.  Well, my father had been talked into opening up a furniture store.  And little Bill Michael, as he was called, was running the store.  Before the war, Bill had worked for Perlman’s.  And during the war, he was in Red Cross.  Sometime after he got out and before I came home, he had talked my father into backing him in the furniture business.  So they opened up this furniture store on Biltmore Avenue, Stanton Furniture, which of course is my name.  But I was not too happy in there, and stayed there for about a year I guess.  And then I went to work for my father in the factory, in the suit, coat and dress business, called Highland Manufacturer, on Cox Avenue.  He had moved the factory from Biltmore Avenue down to this larger two-story building at the end of Cox Avenue next door to Swannanoa Laundry.  The building is still there today; I think it is an auto parts store or something. 

 Q.  Where—how did they sell their things?

 A.  During the war, he had a couple of salesmen on the road.  But after the war, he went into contracting business.  He contracted with other manufacturers, one particular one was Shirley Cloak and Dress, right here in Atlanta, that he contracts where they ship the material up and they would do the cutting and the sewing and send the finished garments back.

 Q.  Do you know who owned that?

 A.  That was owned by—Melvin Mayor worked there.  He was a friend of mine in Asheville.  His father had a shoe repair shop in West Asheville.  Max I think.  They lived on Mt. Vernon.  Right after graduation from high school, he moved to Atlanta, and went to work for Shirley.  And worked for them until after the war, and then he started his own business here.  I really don’t remember the name of his store.  I visited him there one time when we came down from Lansing.  It was the needle business.

 Q.  Do you think maybe that connection was why your dad’s factory made clothes for

them, because you knew them, and you made that connection?

 A.  I don’t think so.  He was—I don’t know what he was doing at the time, but no, that wouldn’t have had any connection.  Melvin died a couple of years ago.

 Q.  Were most of the people he made clothes for, outside of Asheville?

 A.  Yeah. Well, it must have been around ’53 or so, he started selling right at the factory.  He had a show-room set up right on the main floor.  Selling direct to the public, wholesale prices.  Originally—it was still called Island (?), but then he changed it to Goldblum, Inc. 

 Q.  So when people went to the retail discount showroom, they were going to Goldblum’s?

 A.  Yeah.

 Q.  So where did you all live at that time when you first came back?

 A.  The first apartment that we had was in Mrs. Gray’s Boarding House.  I was in high school with her son.  We lived on Merrimon Avenue.  We were renting a house that had belonged to the Fayors???.  And Mrs. Gray had a boarding house on Merrimon Avenue on the next corner.  And sometime during the war, she converted it to what she called apartments.  They had a rental law at that time, that you had to get approval from the government for how much you were going to charge, and that sort of thing.  And our apartment had formally been her dining room.  This was on Merrimon Avenue and the first cross-street.  Closer to Beaver Lake.  Austin Avenue dead-ended into the cross-street that came up across Merrimon.

 Q.  Coleman?

 A.  Yeah, I think so.  Yeah.  She had the boarding house there.  And the bathroom in our so-called apartment had been a closet that she had converted.  It had a shower stall and commode.  The closet we had to hang our clothes in had been her china closet.  So it wasn’t very wide or deep.   So, when we would hang our clothes, instead of side to side, they were front to back.  And our kitchen, she had converted the back porch into a kitchen.  And unfortunately, there was no heat in there.  That New Years, my mother and father and sister had gone to California; we were staying up there at their place, in Beaver Lake, in Midland Drive, a big house.  Anyways, we had a New Year’s Eve party up there.  And in the morning, we found people we didn’t even know laying around—LAUGHTER.  We went back to our apartment, and found Mrs. Gray in there mopping up, because the pipes had burst in the kitchen, it had gotten so cold.  And so that was the end of that, we didn’t go back.  That’s how we moved over to Marlboro, a duplex on Marlboro.  Wesley Brown owned that.  We lived there—we brought Martin home from the hospital to this duplex.  From there we moved to a little house on Barnard Avenue that my father had built.  He was still building a few houses; and he had built two on Barnard, and we moved into one.  And then we decided to move away from Asheville.  And I got a job with Wing Insurance in Greenville, and we moved down to Greenville.  And Sandra was born there.  And when she was 3 or 4 months old, we moved back to Asheville, and went back to work for my father in the factory.  And that lasted about 4 years.  And we decided it was time to move on and get away from the families.

 Q.  So during that time, was that when you lived on Ottari Road?

 A.  Yes, when we came back from Greenville, we moved onto Ottari Road, which had been where Betty’s sister, Mildred and her family lived.  And they had just moved over to Lake Shore Drive.  So we bought their house on Ottari, and lived there until we moved to Lansing in ’56.

 Q.  Do you remember some of the people who were your friends in high school?  Did you go to Temple or Synagogue?

 A.  Temple.  Michael Robinson, who was a Rabbi.  Eli Archentar??? and Harvey Share???, whose father worked for Mr. Pollack.  And there was the family, Winetrov family, Ron and Rhonda Winetrov, brother and sister.  They moved away when the war started.

 Q.  What did their father do?

 A.  He was on the road selling, but I don’t know what it was.  They lived out in Beaver Lake.  And then Paul Rubenstein, he and his mother lived in an apartment on Coleman, behind Mrs. Gray’s boarding house.  I don’t know what they did.  He went to school.  I don’t know what happened with during—he was in the Army.  He became a lawyer.  And was in Chicago.  And Sidney Goldstein, lived over on Cumberland.

 Q.  Was that Nimi’s son?

A.  No.  I don’t know whether they are any relation.  And Bob Rosen, who became a doctor and lived in Miami.  Fred Cantor (?) –They lived right down the street from us on Merrimon.  His dad also was a traveling salesman.  They had moved to Fayetteville from Hendersonville when Fred was probably about a sophomore in high school.  He had an older brother, Ed, who was in college at the time, who was also a lawyer in New York.  Gloria Kaplan, who lived, she and her family lived in a house under the Chestnut Street bridge.  I really don’t know what her dad did, if anything.  She had the reputation of being a communist.  And then there was Libby Issan.  An attractive young lady, and very vain.  She should have been wearing glasses, but didn’t like to wear them on the street; and she’d pass people who she knew and they would say hello to her, and she couldn’t see them.  I don’t know what her family did either.  And then Sylvia and Doris Patla, who of course’s father was Joe Patla, an attorney.  And Elaine Fabian, whose father was Michael Love. 

 Q.  What did her father do, Mr. Fabian?

 A.  I don’t think she worked.  I don’t know.  Her husband had died, or they were divorced.  I don’t know.  But they lived over on Hillside.  My sister went to UNC, Greensboro, and took a 2-year secretarial course; and when she came back home, she went to work for Norman Ayers (?), who was an accountant.

 Q.  Where was his office?

 A.  In the Haywood building.  She worked for him until my father died in ’56.  And then they moved back up to St. Paul for a—well, they moved to Lansing for a short time.  And then they moved to St. Paul, where my sister got married, and moved to California.

 Q.  Was your mom still alive then?

 A.  Yeah, she stayed in the same _____, and then she took sick and we moved her to my sister’s, and she lived there until she passed away in ’74.

 Q.  Well, why don’t you talk a little bit about what you remember about Downtown, when you were a teenager, and then also when you came back?

 A.  Well, personally, the S & W was a hangout, and what was that little restaurant they had next door?

 Q.  It was called the S & W Annex.

 A.  Yeah, that was a hangout, after school.  And we use to go to the movies at the Imperial or the Plaza Theaters, and most of the social life, at least mine, had anything to do with, with mainly centered with the Jewish population.  We did very little intermingling at that time. Whatever we did was usually a group affair.  And we use to go out to Royal Pines on Saturday night; and had picnics out there.  And of course when I came back after the war, we were married, and we started to hang out with the old married crowd.  And I think we were about the first of our generation to get married.  And after that, a few more did get married.  And we had a fairly good group of young married people.  And Rabbi Unger, who was the Rabbi at the Temple at the time, decided to form what he called the Young People’s League.  It was made up of young marrieds and singles in their twenties and thirties.  And we—our main purpose was to help raise some money for the Temple.  And we did that mainly by having minstrel shows.

 Q.  We have those pictures.  LAUGHTER

 A.  We were in several of the minstrel shows.  I was Mr. Interlocketer??? for one of them; and Norman Salton was, one time.  And after that, why, we were all side-men in black-face.  And Betty and my sister Ann and some of the other girls had singing and dancing acts that they did.