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A. My name is
Ginger Lerner. I live at 3336 Hunchdine Way, in Marietta, Georgia. I’ve
been here for 3 years; and I moved from Asheville, North Carolina, where I
was born and raised.
Q. And when did
your family come to Asheville?
A. They came from
Russia to Canada; and then my father’s younger sister got TB and they had
heard that Asheville was the place to go for a cure. So they moved to
Asheville, and they were too late; she passed away in Asheville. And is
buried in Lou Pollack Cemetery. Her name was Rose Grand.
Q. Do you know
where they lived in Canada?
A. No.
Q. And what was
your parents’ names?
A. Rose Schuman
was my mother’s maiden name; and Reuben Grand.
Q. Were they
married before they came to Asheville, or did they meet here?
A. No, they
married afterwards. They were second or third cousins, actually. I don’t
know how they really met. My mother lived in Philadelphia. And my father
and my uncle use to go to—they were furriers. They use to go to New York to
the fur market. My dad use to stop in Philadelphia, to visit family. And
that is, I guess, how he met my mom.
Q. So I have a
question, which is Who in your family came from Canada? Can you tell us the
names of those people?
A. My father’s
family. My father, my Uncle Charlie, and my grandparents, Millie and Louis
Grand.
Q. And did they
all come to Asheville, or just—
A. No, they all
came. And his sister Rose.
Q. Do you have
any idea where they lived when they came?
A. They lived on
Montford Avenue—I don’t know specifically where. And then my grand parents
had a house on Merrimon Avenue, and it is right next to a church, a block
down from Claxton School. North. And then my grandparents built a house on
the Rose Garden—Griffing Boulevard.
Q. So were they
all in business together? Did they start out with the furrier in Asheville?
A. Yes. Yes, I
guess because my grandfather worked with maybe an uncle, when they came from
Russia to Canada, and it was the fur business. So that is what they opened
up when they moved to Asheville.
Q. Do you think
they were retail furriers in Canada, or wholesale?
A. I bet they
were retail.
Q. Do you know
what locations?
A. As far as I
know, the store had one location for 60 years. 42 Haywood Street.
Q. What do you
remember about the shop?
A. Uh, long, it
had a balcony and a sewing room, where they did repairs and alterations; and
steps that came down on either side, like that, and then in the middle, the
street level, was the office, in back. And on either side were safes with
the fur coats.
Q. Did you ever
work there?
A. No. I went to
college when I was l6; and I got married when I was 21.
Q. Where did you
go to school in Asheville?
A. Claxton, David
Miller and Lee Edwards.
Q. And what do
you remember about those places?
A. Nothing
unusual.
Q. Did you go to
the stores after school Downtown?
A. On Thursdays,
was movie nights. So we use to take the bus from school to Pritchard Park,
and walk up to the Vogue. And when the store closed, which was about 5:30 I
guess, we went to the S&W for dinner, and then we went to the movies, every
Thursday.
Q. Upstairs? At
the S&W upstairs or—
A. No, no, no.
We went either the Plaza, which is no longer there of course, or the
Imperial, which I guess is no longer there either.
Q. You mean your
whole family went to the theater?
A. My parents and
my sister and myself.
Q. Now what was
the age difference of your sister?
A. She was five
years older. Her name was Arlene Grand Sandman.
Q. Do you know
how her husband was related to David Sandman?
A. Dave Sandman
was his uncle.
Q. And Arlene’s
husband’s name?
A. Was Gilbert.
Q. And where was
he from?
A. He was from
New York, Manhattan. He worked—came to Asheville to work for his uncle, in
a lady’s dress shop. And there weren’t that many Jewish dateable men, and
as far as I know, there still aren’t. We can’t find that many here, can we,
Dana? LAUGHTER And that’s how they met.
Q. Do you
remember any of who your parents’ friends were, anything about them?
A. Goodness
gracious. The Lichtenfelds, the Sternbergs, the Rifkins, some of the
Michael Loves. They had a whole group they use to go out together.
Saturday nights, they use to go to the Sky Club. That was a very close
group, a very close group.
Q. And who were
some of your friends?
A. Ann Sternberg,
Millie Coolie. I don’t know if there are any Coolies left. Rita Marter.
Rita lives in Black Mountain now. Her name is Rita Hicks, and we are still
close friends. And there were not many Jewish kids in our age group.
Q. So did you
have friends that weren’t Jewish?
A. No. No.
Q. Did you go to
Synagogue, or Temple?
A. Went to
Temple.
Q. Do you
remember—were there different Rabbi’s when you were there?
A. There was
Rabbi Jacobs was the first one I remember. Well, no, I will take that
back. Rabbi Unger is the first one I remember from when I was a little
girl. And then there was another Rabbi who was terrible whose name I don’t
remember at all. Completely blocked him.
Q. Was he earlier
or later?
A. Later. He
wasn’t there very long. And as I understand it, he now sells cars somewhere
in Pennsylvania, which is probably a good occupation for him. Better than
being a Rabbi.
Q. So what were
some of the things that you remember about Downtown as a whole, when you
were growing up?
A. By the fact
that it never changed. Bon Marche, the street across from the Vogue, and
right next to the Vogue was a shoe store—Martie Beloven owned it. I can’t
think of what they called it. There was a little department store—Winners.
And Harriet Winner is younger than I am, and I don’t really hear from her.
And I guess her children are younger than you, honey?
???:. Larry is my age, and Ann is David’s age, older.
Q. So, did you
have a pretty close relationship with your parents, and your uncle and aunt,
and—
A. With my
parents, with my uncle and his first wife—we were closer than I was with his
second wife. Both of them have passed away.
Q. Who were those
wives?
A. The first
wife’s name was Carolyn Royal. Jerry and Roselyn's mother. Roselyn was
adopted. Jerry was not. The second wife was Terry Lee, and I do not know
what her maiden name was.
Q. Did your
family very involved with the Temple? Did they go a lot?
A. Probably no
and no. Went on the high holidays, like everyone else, and occasionally.
Q. Did you have
Passover at home?
A. Yes, and
Hanukah, and we had Christmas, and still do.
Q. When you
remember holiday, like meals—whatever holiday—4th of July or
Thanksgiving or whatever—who was at the table?
A. Well, we use
to have, if it was something like 4th of July, my parents usually
had a party and we had a picnic—we had a large backyard, for all of their
friends. I will tell you the best party that we ever had, was a
birthday-graduation party. Dana—you are going to have to help. It was my
younger son’s birthday and David and your graduation—one of them had a
birthday too. Dana graduated high school; David, my oldest son, graduated
college; and it was my youngest son’s birthday. And we had a
birthday-graduation-birthday party. It was in one of the restaurants. We
had invited the whole town—too many people. Another thing that I don’t
believe they do now: When I was married, we sent out invitations out of
town, and other than that, we put an announcement in the paper, and said
friends of the family were invited. And they all came.
Q. So how did you
meet your husband?
A. My husband was
a blind date. I was in graduate school in Boston. He was doing his
internship in Boston. And his room mate called to ask me out. And his
roomate was dating my roommate; and she had a wild crush on him, so—I had
never met him, but I recognized the name. And so I told him I wouldn’t go
out with, and that was why. He couldn’t have cared less. He said OK, you
want go out with my roommate? And I said “Sure.” And “my roommate” turned
out to be my husband; and five dates later, we got married.
Q. So how long
was it from the time you met him, til the time you married?
A. Five months.
When he was in the Navy, so it wasn’t like seeing him or nothing. It was
really like five dates.
Q. Where did you
get married?
A. In Asheville,
at the Temple. The party was at the Vanderbilt Hotel. Again, he was in the
Navy, so we didn’t have much time. We went to Williamsburg for our
honeymoon, because he was stationed in Norfolk at the time. Our anniversary
date is October 2, l955.
Q. And just to
jump back, where did you go to college?
A. I went to
Vanderbilt, and I got my Masters from Boston University in Psychiatric
Social Work.
Q. When you were
growing up, kind of in high school, where was it that your parents lived?
A. In Beaver
Lake, on West Kensington Road.
Q. When you were
married, where did you live?
A. Well, we were
in the Navy. We lived in Virginia first. Then my husband went overseas; I
came back to Asheville. And then he hadn’t finished his training; and I
hadn’t finished my Masters program; so we went back to Boston.
Q. But when you
moved to Asheville, where were the places you lived in Asheville?
A. Well, my
husband never lived in Asheville. I always lived with my parents when I was
in Asheville.
Q. After he was
finished with his service, and you had kids?
A. 111 South
Griffing Circle. DANA: That’s where I was born. And then Maplewood,
while you built the house.
Q. So you lived
near Rita?
A. Yes, across
the street. DANA: And then 32 Sunset Summit. They built a
house..
Q. So, as a young
married couple in Asheville, did you have a lot of Jewish friends?
A. There weren’t
a lot of Jewish people our age to have Jewish friends. Also, my husband
worked all the time, and was too tired for us to be very social. My
husband was a model railroader, and worked on the trains. And because of
that, I started building miniature scenes and doll houses. We spent a lot
of time with that. But we weren’t very social. Too tired.
Q. Did you still
belong to the Temple?
A. Oh we still
belonged to the Temple. Now my husband was on the Board at the Temple, at
one time. But again, I wouldn’t say we went to services a lot. But I was
confirmed—something that my husband had never heard of.
Q. Was he
Reformed? Or conservative?
A. He was
Reformed, he was Bar Mitzvah’d, but in Connecticut; and had never heard of
confirmation, which I thought was interesting. But his reform was not my
reform. As far as I was concerned, Reformed up North was like conservative
almost. It’s much more traditional. Which makes me not happy with the way
the services are in Asheville.
Q. You want to go
back to the Union Prayer book?
A. Absolutely.
Do they not use the Union any more?
Q. We did for the
Founders’ Day. That was the big thing—trying to get them to use it,
but…they don’t like to… What did he think about being in the South?
A. He loved it.
He loved it. Strangely enough. When we would go to his class reunions up
there, he had the thickest Southern accent, y’all, because of his class at
medical school, one guy went to Florida. Paul moved to Asheville; and
everybody else stayed up North. So they thought this was very strange.
Q. Was he at
Harvard?
A. Yes. But you
can imagine. And he use to say “Well, I’ll tell you—my office is right
across the street from two hospitals—whereas the ones who stayed up North
would maybe just go see patients at one hospital, because transportation
was—it was just too far away. And there is another hospital, off of Patton
Avenue, near Downtown—there was, about 10 minutes from Paul’s office, which
was right across the street from St. Joseph’s. And after we lived in
Asheville for 6 months, he use to hate to go there, because he thought it
was too far. That’s spoiled. But he loved living in Asheville. When I
went away to college, I never thought that I would spend my life in
Asheville. We use to call Asheville, a place for newlyweds and nearly
deads. But we use to go because I was in school, and he was still in
training in Boston. His parents lived in Connecticut. So when we had
vacations, we use to come back to Asheville. And he fell in love with it.
He was raised in an apartment, you know. And people had big houses and big
yards. And everyone was very nice to him, and Daddy took him fishing, which
he loved. And then his last year in training—he was the kind of man that
couldn’t stand not doing anything. So he looked up “neurologists” in the
phonebook, told them who he was, asked them if he could come down and make
rounds, and they said “Certainly.” And then they said “When do you
finish?’ and he said “July.” And they said “Do you want a job?” And we
ended up in Asheville.
Q. How do you
feel about that?
A. Well, then I
loved it, because I think Asheville was a wonderful place to raise a
family. At that time, we had one child. And it is a great place to raise a
family, until your kids get to be dating age. And then it’s terrible. And
as far as I know, it is still that way. I don’t have that many friends with
children who are dating age, actually.
Q. So where did
your kids go to school?
A. They all went
to Country Day, which is now Carolina Day. And my two oldest graduated from
there, and my younger one transferred to Asheville High in the 9th
grade, and graduated.
Q. So did they
have many Jewish friends?
A. No, there
weren’t many kids their age. Dana’s graduating class had ten people in
it. She was Jewish, and Marvin Slosman’s, Sandy Slosman’s son. They were
both Jewish, and they were ten people, and he was the only boy. Never dated
her. There just were never—I never remember a lot of Jewish kids in
whatever age group I happened to be in. Or when I got married, there
weren’t that many young married Jewish couples. A few, but not a lot. And
it wasn’t—the ones who there were, had friends who weren’t Jewish. We were
not a young married Jewish social group, at all.
Q. Did you feel
like you ever experienced anti-Semitism?
A. No. Never. I
used to ask my kids that. And they didn’t either. They weren’t
particularly welcomed at the Country Club in Biltmore Park. Dana, did you
ever feel any Semitism when you were growing up?
DANA: No.
A. WE use to tell
the teachers—we use to keep them out for the Jewish holidays, and we would
say “Please don’t give tests on these days.” And they didn’t. But I don’t
think of any of them ever did.
Q. Now, did you
ever work outside your home?
A. Not until
after I was married, and the kids were grown up. I was the generation you
had kids, you stayed home and raised your kids.
DANA: And it was
wonderful coming home, and having Mom there, every afternoon.
A. The only women
I knew who worked, Jewish or Gentile, were women who really needed work for
financial reasons. Now women work because, you know, women like to work.
It’s a big deal. I didn’t know anyone who worked. DANA: You did lots of
volunteer work. A. Well, that’s different.
Q. Were you
involved in Hadassah, and Sisterhood and any of those things?
A. In Sisterhood,
and another one. Council of Jewish Women. When I was young, I went to the
JCC. It depended if we went—we never even belonged.
DANA: We went to
pre-school there, Hilda Hoffman.
A. Yeah, oh yes,
that’s true. If there was something going on that we wanted to go to, we
would go; but we never joined. I know people did. We use to swim across
the street.
Q. To get back to
the generation before you, you mentioned that your Dad liked to fish—do you
know—was he older or younger than his brother?
A. He was older,
but I don’t know how much older.
Q. So do you have
any idea, were they little boys when they came to Asheville? Teen-agers?
A. No, my father
was a teen-ager, about l8 I think. He didn’t go to school in Asheville, nor
college.
Q. Was fishing a
big passion of his?
A. Just enjoyed
deep sea fishing, if he would go to Florida or something. Not like my
husband—my husband went trout fishing every Wednesday. That was his day
off.
Q. Did he just go
all around the mountains? Was there any particular place he liked to go?
A. Around the
Davidson River, sometimes Cherokee. But Cherokee was far away, and use to
make me nervous if he went there a lot.
Q. Do you
remember, did your uncle have a particular thing he liked to do?
A. Like poker?
Q. Yeah—WHO was
in that poker group? Was your dad?
A. No, my dad
wasn’t. Dave Sandman and my uncle, and I don’t really know who else. They
must have played at people’s homes; they didn’t play at the Center. Nobody
in my family was very active _______.
Q. What happened
to the business?
A. When they—they
just closed it, when they decided, you know, that they had reached an age
that they didn’t want to work any more. They just closed it up.
Q. So they didn’t
try to sell it or—
A. No.
Q. What year was
that? Was Downtown still booming? Or was it kind of going down?
A. I never
thought of Asheville as booming, I’m sorry. LAUGHTER So I therefore, never
thought of it as going down. Well, it still had Winners, it still had Bon
Marche; it still had Ivey’s.
Q. So it closed
in the’60’s, you think?
A. No, it was
later than that. Because my kids were born in the 60’s. I had a child
every election year in the ‘60’s. Maybe in the ‘70’s, I guess. My
grandparents had both died.
Q. And was your
uncle still running it?
A. My uncle and
my father, both.
Q. What was your
mother like?
A. My mother was
wonderful. She was from Philadelphia, and met my father there. She worked
in a bank—one of the few women who did work then. She was only 18, but very
proud of the fact that she worked in the bank. She didn’t like living in
Asheville, at first, because she lived with my grandmother, and hated it.
Then they got their own house.
Q. Did she work
in the business and help? Did any women in the family help in the business?
A. No. No. I
had an aunt—my father had a sister who had TB but survived. Not Rose. Her
name was Ida Grand. They use to just sit around the store. And literally,
along with quite a few other people—Dr. Kodak—use to sit around the store
when he wasn’t busy. Sometimes Dr. Feldman. People would just come in to
talk, and sit, and stay for awhile.
Q. So it was a
little bit of a gathering place?
A. Yeah.
Q. So did your
Aunt Ida get married?
A. My aunt, who
was my father’s sister, married my mother’s brother, from Philadelphia.
His name was Abe
Schuman, and she got pregnant and she had TB. And my grandmother thought it
would not be a very good idea for her to have this baby. And anyway, she
broke them up, and they got divorced. And then she married another man who
was very nice; and they got divorced. I don’t know where he was from—Bob
Graga—a very nice man. Not from Asheville.
She lived in
Asheville the whole time, about that far away from her mother. They would
just sit around the store. The store was very large, you know like this.
And had nice upholstered chairs in the front. Had a desk and a telephone
out front, where he use to make all his business calls from the telephone.
You would just come in, if they were going to go out that weekend or
something, they would always come in the Vogue and make their plans. My
mother was a mahjong player; so she use to play at least once a week, with
Annette Sternberg, Armguard Michenfelds, my mom, Teddy Kodak—that’s four.
And every now and then, they would have a fifth. And then when I learned to
play mahjong, it was very strange. DANA: Had lunch with the ladies.
A. Yeah, I use to feel—you know, like my kid Dana would come home, and I
use to feel just like my Mother—like I was my Mother, playing mahjong when
her children came home from school. Here I was playing mahjong, and MY
child coming home from school. They use to have lunch at Brice Restaurant,
basically the same group. On Merrimon, down near ______, other side of the
street and up about two blocks. And I forget what day of the week, this
whole group of ladies. Dana always called it “lunch with the ladies.”
Q. So did you
play mahjong with those ladies? Or who did you play with?
A. No, no, no. I
played mahjong with my age: Sandy Slosman and Marilyn Freedman, and some
ladies who weren’t Jewish. There were four or five of us.
Q. Do you
remember as a kid, what the furs were like, or what you thought about—
A. I guess they
are like what they are now. There wasn’t—I don’t remember the anti-fur
feeling, you know. But there—you never worried about walking down the
street and somebody throwing paint on you, or things like that. We were
nice. There use to be these neck pieces, you know with the little heads;
and we use to play with them. When Dana was little bittie, she use to do
the same thing. But I would tell you something very interesting—at least I
think—my grandfather was a tailor, in Russia. He use to go from city to
city with his sewing machine on his back. At that time, they use to draft
single men into the Army in Russia, and they would never be seen again,
unless these people were married. And that’s why my grandfather married my
grand mother, when she was 14. And then she had my father when she was
about 15. So he was safe. When they moved to Asheville, although he never
sewed for us, he use to sew the vestments for the priests, St. Laurence,
which I always thought was really interesting. His name was Louis Grand.
Q. Did you ever
go in the church?
A. Oh, I’ve been
in the church, just to look. I never went to services. I have a very close
friend now, from Black Mountain, who is Catholic, so I have been to services
with her a couple of times.
Q. So do you
remember people from Biltmore Forest coming into your store?
A. No, but—there
were only two fur stores. The Vogue and Entman’s. It was newer, and right
across the street from where Penney’s use to be, which I know is not
Penney’s any more.
Q. So do you
remember when they opened, was there any talk in your family about
competition or anything like that?
A. No.
Q. Were they
friendly with Mr. Entman?
A. Not
particularly. I don’t think they ever really considered him to be
competition.
Q. Was he Jewish?
A. No. They have
two Jewish doctors, one Jewish furrier, one Jewish department store owner.
No Jewish teachers, that I can think of, until Dana went to school. Then
they had two young Jewish teachers, who were younger then than she is now.
It just seemed so strange. And I would always have them over for Passover.
But now, they were right out of college. They must have been around 22.
But they were away from home, right out of school. So they use to come over
for Passover.
Q. Now, you said
when your parents first came, they lived on Montford Avenue?
A. No, my
grandparents lived on Montford, and the moved to Merrimon Avenue and then to
Griffin Blvd.
Q. So did you
live in the same house the whole time you were growing up?
A. Yeah. When my
parents got another house, I think I was married already, when my parents
moved away from the house where I was raised.
Q. So then where
did they move?
A. They just
moved to another house about three blocks. They moved because my sister and
I were no longer at home; they sold the house and got an apartment on
Merrimon Avenue, up the hill. Edgewood Knoll. And couldn’t stand it. My
Daddy never closed the front door. They had lived in a house you
know—claustrophobic. So they bought another house, which was bigger than
the house that they had sold actually. And they were happy there.
Q. So did they
move away from Asheville when they retired?
A. No. They both
died in Asheville. Both buried Riverside.
Q. How old were
they when they passed away? They lived to be pretty old.
A. My mother was
in her 70’s, and I guess my father was I guess 78. Died of a broken heart.
Took a few years, but I am convinced that he died of a broken heart.
Q. Now when you
were a kid, did they take you to visit the relatives in Philadelphia?
A. Occasionally.
Mostly, they were all my mother’s relatives. We went every now and then.
Sometimes we use to go to New York when Daddy would go to the fur market, we
would stop in Philadelphia.
Q. Did you go on
the train?
A. Yes.
Q. You liked
that?
A. Oh, the train was wonderful, Pullman. Pullman to Washington, D.C. at 6
o’clock in the morning, just as the sun was coming up, and all the buildings
were white and shiny—use to love it.
Q. Yeah, it’s
beautiful. I still take the train to Washington. Do you remember Rabbi
Unger?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you
remember anything particular about him, or his wife, or any instances?
A. I just loved
him dearly, because he had been my Rabbi, since I—I use to call him Doctor
Rabbi. Because he had been my Rabbi since I was just a little girl. And I
will never forget, when I was really little one time, and we were singing
the Star Spangled Banner, and he said “Ginger Grand is the only one who
knows all the words,” and I have never forgotten that. Just a nice, nice
man; did very long sermons. They were, you know, just very nice people. He
blessed my house, blessed my children, named my children in Temple.
Q. Your sons had
Bar Mitzvahs, right?
A. We did not
have a Rabbi when my younger son was Bar Mitzvah’d; my husband and Frank
Edwins Bar Mitzvah’d him. Rabbi Unger Bar Mitzvah’d David. And confirmed
me.
Q. So he really
was your family Rabbi?
A. Oh yes. And
actually, he came from Philadelphia, and my mother knew him. From
Philadelphia, before he moved to Asheville. He moved to Asheville, after I
guess it was World War II. He was a chaplain, in the Army.
Q. So there was a
connection that went way back. And I know somebody who was instrumental in
bringing him too, was Joe Dave?—they were room mates. At University of
Cincinnati.
A. I don’t know
that, but I am not surprised at all. And Joe Dave raised most of the money
to build the Temple.
Q. And you
remember that? What was the old Temple like?
A. Yes. From
this point of view, old and crummy. Just a building, big glass windows.
Very plain. Nothing that to really be proud of, as far as looks. Not for
content, but as far as looks went… My grandparents belonged to both
congregations. My parents just belonged to the Temple.
Q. And what did
you think of the new one, when it got built?
A. Oh, I thought
it was beautiful. I still think it is beautiful.
Q. Did you go to
Sunday School in that old Temple, or did they have it some place else?
A. No, it was in
the old Temple, and then in the building, you know, in the old room. But
the Sunday School now is in that long building on the side, isn’t it? There
weren’t very many of us.
Q. Some people
had told us that there was a different building…
A. If there is, I
don’t remember.
Q. Do you
remember who any of your Sunday School teachers were?
A. Not really.
I do remember that Rita Marter’s father didn’t teach us, but he taught Paul
Roth and Jerry Sternberg and I don’t know who else—but they were really a
wild group, and they chased him around the room once, and he fell and broke
his leg. I don’t even remember who taught us.
Q. Not any grade?
A. Just sort of
blanked it out, and went to Temple on Friday nights—was something we had to
do in order to get confirmed.
Q. Did they have
Saturday services when you were growing up?
A. They did not,
and I think it’s outrageous that they do now.
Q. They actually
don’t.
A. Every now and
then.
Q. Only for Bar
Mitzvah. They have a friendship circle. Just a small group of people.
A. Well, whatever
excuse. I was ultra, ultra, ultra Reform. Nearest thing to a Unitarian
church, that is to say.
Q. Now, do you go
to Temple here?
A. Occasionally.
Q. Was it ultra
Reform?
A. No, but it was
the closest thing we could find. Dana is a member, and I am her best,
because I still go to Temple at home and I can’t afford to pay dues in two
of them. I don’t even remember the name. We go on the high holidays and
when we have yurtza.
Q. What town is
it in?
A. Mt. Sinai in
Atlanta. Dana use to belong to the big Reform Temple Downtown—I love
it—called The Temple. And loved the Rabbi, and then the Rabbi retired. And
it was far from where we live. It’s one of the things that is still hard
for me to get use to—everything is so far. This is about 15 minutes from
where we live; that’s close.
Q. What do you
miss most about living in Asheville?
A. Not a thing,
except being able to go to the cemetery. Otherwise, I don’t miss a single
thing.
Q. So you are
very happy being in Atlanta?
A. Yes, I love it
here. It is a whole brand new life. I moved here to be Dana’s real estate
assistant. Took me awhile, took me 12 years before I could emotionally part
from my house. Of course I had an 18-room house for just me and a
puppy-dog,, but still, took me a long time. And then Dana said “Move to
Atlanta! I am looking for an assistant. I will find you a house.” Real
estate was less expensive here than in Asheville. So, I moved here, and she
found very nice houses, and for some reason—and she wanted a new house. So
I said “Well, why don’t we just find a new house together? And we would
have more of a house, than we would if we had two.” So we function pretty
much on impulse. She thought that was a good idea, and that is what we have
done.
Q. Where are your
other children?
A. My older son,
who is the only one who is married, and the father of my two grand children,
lives in Orlando. I have a grandson who will be 14 in August; and I have a
grandson who will be 2 in September. And they are all Catholic.
Q. How do you
feel about that?
A. Not happy.
Well, I knew that my grandchildren would be raised Catholic. I didn’t
really expect my son to convert. But he did. He felt that was the best
thing for his family. David. My younger son Dean, lives in Chicago. He
always wanted to be a chef. Went to a school called Johnson & Wales in
Providence, Rhode Island. Decided he didn’t want to spend the rest of his
life slaving over a hot stove in somebody else’s kitchen. I told him I
could have told him that before we spent all the money on tuition. So they
have either a two-year culinary program, or a four-year program—you can get
a Bachelor’s Degree, which is what he did. And then he got-- my kids love
to go to school—got a Masters Degree at the University of Houston, in
Hospitality; and went to work to Hilton Hotels. And then Headhunter found
him and offered him a job in property management; and he is now the
Executive Vice-President of Property Management, there in Chicago. Dana has
a PHD in Sports Psychology; and was the only Sports Psychologist that they
used during the Olympics, when the Olympics were here.
Q. Wow. Where
did she get that Degree?
A. That was the
last one, so that was the University of Virginia. She went to Carolina for
her Bachelor’s. She went to University of North Texas for her Master’s; and
University of Virginia for her PHD. And my older one went to Tulane, and
then got his Law Degree at Wake Forest. And he is married to an attorney.
Q. Did they meet
at Wake Forest?
A. No, they met
in Dallas, working for the same law firm.
Q. So, what else
can we ask about Asheville, and Asheville history, Sharon? Did you feel
like you wanted your kids to leave Asheville? Or they should leave
Asheville?
A. Oh, I didn’t
want them to stay in Asheville. There is nothing, was nothing for kids—my
kids, anyway. Dana? Would you ever live in Asheville? DANA: Not right
now, no. Ever? Probably not. A. I mean there was no one for her to
date, and there was no place to go. I didn’t expect to wind up living in
Asheville. As much as I would have wanted my boys closer to me, I wouldn’t
have wanted them to live in Asheville.
Q. There is just
no opportunity there, is what you are saying.
A. No, that’s
right.
Q. So, how about
any Montford memories?
A. It’s on the
way to the cemetery.
Q. Did you
remember any of the other businesses—do you know if your Dad was friendly
with any of the businesses right around where he was that weren’t Jewish?
A. Oh, I am
sure. I am trying to think what there was. Well, I mean there was Ida and
Martie Beloven. But not socially friendly. My parents were older. And
they didn’t really socialize with the Winners.
Q. The Winners
were probably actually younger.
A. Yeah, I never
could figure out when my mother died, why all of her friends were still
alive, and she had died. And then I found out that they were older than all
the people they were friendly with. It’s like all the questions I wish now
that I had asked my father about living—I mean he was a teen-ager when he
came to Canada. So he would remember about living in Russia. Never thought
to ask him about that, or about living in Russia. Or coming over from
Russia, until he died. And my Uncle Charlie died first; and there was
nobody left to ask. And at the time, I never thought to ask, what that was
like. And I missed a lot. I am really so sorry about that.
Q. That would
have been great information. And they probably didn’t want to talk about
it, I mean unless you asked.
A. No, I mean it
wasn’t something that they talked about.
Q. It wasn’t like
it was the good old days.
A. Yeah. No, and
I am sure if I had asked, that he would have told me. And now, that I
really and truly want to know, so that I can pass that on to them, I am so
aggravated with myself, because I never thought to ask. Asheville was fine
to grow up in, and still is. Not exciting. I remember when they had the
big epidemic, polio. And we use to go swimming at Beaver Lake. And they
closed that. And couldn’t do anything. Couldn’t go to the movies. I just
stayed home and read all summer. Didn’t bother me, as long as none of my
friends got sick. But it wasn’t that much different from what we did the
rest of the time. Actually, it just wasn’t exciting to grow up in. There
weren’t art museums, wasn’t any theater, I mean ACT after awhile. But here
we go to the Opera, we go to Broadway shows, concerts. I do more in a
weekend here than I would do in three months in Asheville. You can only
play mahjong so long.
Q. Do you
remember Charlton Heston being in Asheville?
A. That was
before my time. I mean I know, he was a director. But that is before my
time. We had a nice teachers—school was easy. We had a junior high and a
high school that they don’t really have any more. Junior high was 6th
, 7th, 8th and 9th grades. High school was
10th, 11th and 12th. I skipped the 12th
grade. I went to college when I was 16. So I combined my 11th
and 12th grade in one year. First half of the year I was in the
11th grade; second half of the year I was in the 12th
grade.
Q. So you sort of
itching to get out?
A. I wanted to be
a doctor; I wanted to go to medical school. So I wanted the year, because
the whole process takes so long. No, I never actually thought about
“itching” to get out of Asheville. It wasn’t like that really. I didn’t
plan to never come back, and when I did come back, I was a married woman
with children, so I didn’t mind it at all.
Q. And do you
think there was a particular reason you didn’t become a doctor?
A. I made a D in
chemistry. That did it. The only D I ever made, at Vanderbilt.
Q. A wonderful
place. Did you like Vanderbilt?
A. I loved it.
Six Jewish girls, two Jewish fraternities. The first boy I ever dated who
wasn’t Jewish, when I was in college. And the first Jewish girl that my son
ever dated, was when he was in college. He called me up and said “Mom, I
wanted to let you know, that I am dating a Jewish girl tomorrow.” “Oh
honey, I think that’s really terrific.” Called me up the next night, and
said “Mom”; I said “Yeah?” He said “So what?” LAUGHTER
Q. Any parting
memories you want the world to know?
A. No. I am very
happy. I love it. I am happy with the way my children turned out. Sorry
my husband died young. Fifteen years ago in August. I have a wonderful
life now, very happy. A whole brand new life. I mean after he passed away
in Asheville, I only had to get up—I had a book store.
Q. Oh, you did?
Where was that?
A. Yeah, across
from Carolina Day School. Annie’s Book Stop. It was a franchise. And then
he passed away, and I still had two kids in graduate school. So I closed
the store. And after that, I really didn’t have a reason to get up in the
morning, except to feed the dog. Now I have to get up in the morning,
because not only do I have to come to work, but I have to feed five dogs.
We believe in excess, don’t we darling? DANA: Yes. A. We have five
puppies—they are not puppies. Four of them are hairless Chinese
Cresteds—did you ever see one? They have hair on the top of their heads,
little bit on their hands and feet, and none on their bodies. They are so
cute. Our youngest ones name is Offie, because we can never find her, so we
named her Offie Coleman.
Q. So how did you
decide to open this store?
A. I told you we
work on impulse. I collect the state quarters. And the shop I get them is
right up the street. In April, when I picked up the newest quarters that
were out, there was a big GOING OUT OF BUSINESS sign in the window—this is a
really hot area. It was a vintage wedding dress shop. I went flying home
and went “Dana, I just found a great shop, great location for a yarn shop.
Let’s open one.” She said “OK”, and so we did.
Q. Why a yarn
shop though?
A. We both love
to knit. Knitting now is—the yarns are so—my mother taught me to knit when
I was about 6 or 7. I taught her to knit when she was about the same age.
And it was just plain yarn and you knit with one size needles; and that was
pretty much all there was to it. And now, I mean the yarns are fantastic.
All you have to do is knit; you don’t even have to perl if you don’t want
to. This stuff is silk striped sock yarn. If you knit it, it makes its own
stripes and patterns. The yarns are fantastic. It seems that after 9-11
people wanted to have the closeness, the togetherness, the family feeling.
So, they started knitting, which is something that grand parents taught
their grandchildren, or mothers taught their daughters. And the yarn
companies picked up on this; and it was younger and younger people; and so
they started making wild, wonderful yarns, and pretty much making wild
wonderful patterns to go with them. And we had the plain yarns, the yarns I
learned to knit with. But we have all these wonderful things, you know,
like this. SHOWING SOMETHING So we opened last August, and there is not
a yarn shop in this area. Five or six have opened, again, not in this area,
but in the whole Atlanta area. Since we have opened, about five or six more
have opened. And everyone—they come in and want to meet us and see what
yarns we carry. And then we are very relaxed—Thursday nights here is what
we call “knit night”. We don’t close ‘til 9 o’clock at night; and starting
around 6:30 or quarter to 7, people come in with whatever they are working
on, and we just sit around the table—and there are all levels of
knitters—people who have just begun, people who have been knitting for 15 or
20 years, or longer than that. So that if anybody has a problem, there is
always somebody who has an opinion. We just have a good time. We get
anywhere between 15 and 20 women.
Q. Do you think
your parents being in a business and growing up in a business, had anything
to do with you—
A. I don’t know.
I love retail. I loved the book store. I love this. I hated social work,
although that is what my Masters Degree was in. I just enjoy meeting with
the people, and they love what we do. Whether my Dad being in retail had
anything to do with it. I know my sister was a wonderful business woman.
You know, she had a dress shop on Haywood Street at one point. I really
don’t remember the name of it. She also owned the Dunkin Donuts on Tunnel
Road. And then owned a Dunkin Donuts in Knoxville, in Tennessee; but after
her husband died, she and her daughter ran both of them.
Q. But you like
this?
A. Yes. Nothing
like being your own boss.
TAPE OVER
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