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Jan: Well, first of all, can you tell us
what your name is and your birth date?
Solomon: My name is Eva Rae Solomon,
and I was born on September the 6th, 1910.
Q. And where do you live now, and
where were you born?
A. Now I live
in Birmingham, Alabama. I was born in Asheville, North Carolina.
Q. And who are
your parents?
A. Morris and
Rae Lipids.
Q. And how
did they meet each other, do you know? You can say no, that's okay.
A. No.
Q. Okay, what
was your mother's maiden name?
A. Stern.
Q. And where
was she from?
A. Louisiana.
Q. Was she
from New Orleans?
A. Mostly New
Orleans, sometimes up the river.
Q. Did you
remember ever going to Louisiana to visit relatives?
A. Oh, years
later.
Q. Not as a
child?
A. No.
Q. Where did
you live when you were a little girl?
A. In
Asheville.
Q. Do you
remember what street, address, the name of the street?
A. I lived on
Cumberland Circle when I was very little, and then I lived on Montford
Avenue.
Q. And tell
us who was your grandfather and what kind of work did your grandfather and
your father do?
A. My
grandfather, Sullivan Lipinsky, who was the founder of the Bon Marche
department store.
Q. And do you
remember that pretty well?
A. Right
well.
Q. What was
it like to go into Bon Marche?
A. Like going
home. My second home.
Q. Did you
stay there a lot?
A. I went
there a lot.
Q. And your
father worked there too?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you
describe what the inside – I know it was in different locations, but can you
describe what it was like on the inside in some of the locations you
remember?
A. The only
one I remember, to begin with, was on Pat ton Avenue. And as I recall,
the street goes down from Patton to College. The basement entrance was
on college, and the front entrance was on Pat ton. The store itself
was one story, I believe, on the street floor. There was a balcony in
the back that my grandmother sat at. She did all the book work and
took care of the business actually.
Q. What was
she like? Do you remember her very well?
A. I couldn't
describe her.
Q. She's
indescribable?
A. I couldn't
possibly describe her.
Q. Were you
close to her?
A. Pretty
close.
Q. So she was
really a good grandmother to the grandchildren?
A. That's
hard to say. She was different. I guess you'd call her a good
grandmother.
Q. But she
worked in the store a lot.
A. She worked
in the store on Patton Avenue. They lived on Cumberland Avenue.
Q. And what
kind of things, merchandise do you remember seeing in there?
A. No, I
don't remember – I would just say general merchandise.
Q. What was
your grandfather like?
A. He was
wonderful. He was a great man.
Q. Was he
really kind to you?
A. Oh, he was
just wonderful. He was really a great man.
Q. Do you
have any memories of either celebrating something like Passover or always
going to their house on Sunday night or anything like that?
A. I always
went for dinner on Sunday, and I watched my grandmother and my aunt ??? roll
out noodle dough and then chop those noodles as fine as could be chopped.
Q. What were
the noodles for? Kugel or ??? soup?
A. Sunday
dinner.
Q. For soup
or occur kugel or for what? What kind of food did they put it in?
A. Soup.
Q. So your
grandmother was a good cook?
A. Yes, I'd
say she was. And my aunt. Her daughter. Clara.
Q. How far
did you live from where they lived? How would you go? Did you
walk or go by car or –
A. Our house
was on Montford Avenue, there house was on Cumberland Avenue. There
was a back alley between, and I went from the back, from I guess about two
or three houses down the back alley into that yard.
Q. Did you go
by yourself or the whole family?
A. As I
remember I went by myself, but then I was big enough to. Earlier I
have no idea.
Q. Well,
that's pretty neat, you went all by yourself to your grandparents for
dinner. That was pretty neat.
A.
I
guess I was a little older then.
Q. For Sunday
dinner do you remember who else would have been there for dinner?
A. My aunt
and my grandmother and my grandfather, and myself. I cannot remember
how many of my brothers or sisters made it. I don't know.
Possibly not in those days, they were much younger than I was.
Q. Now did
your father travel, like to buy merchandise? Did he go to New York for
buying trips, and would you ever go?
A. I went to
New York very often because my grandparents lived there.
Q. On your
other side.
A. My
mother's mother and father. And I remember those train trips very
well.
Q. Did you go
with your family or by yourself?
A. Sometimes
by myself later, but I think first I went with my grandfather.
Q. Your
grandfather Lipinsky?
A.
Yes.
He took me to my grandparents in New York.
Q.
Do you know where they lived in New York?
A.
On 72nd
and ???, I think, Broadway, right where Broadway and Amsterdam go together.
Q. That's a
pretty good memory.
A. Earlier
than that they lived on a side street off of Broadway, I don't remember.
I remember they lived on that close to the park, and it was during the war
because I wore my Red Cross nurses' outfit.
Q. Were you a
nurse?
A. I was a
little girl, eight years old.
Q. So you had
a junior nurses' out fit. Did you travel on other trips, kind of like
you went to New York, when you were growing up?
A. The only
other place I remember is Atlantic City.
Q.
Who
took you there?
A.
My grandparents, and my aunt.
Q.
Wasn't that with Solomon Lipinsky?
A. Yes, and
my aunt Clara. Their daughter, before she was married.
Q. Right, so
did you like Atlantic City very much? You just went one time?
A. Had a lot
of fun. The boardwalk was wonderful.
Q. And the
beach.
A. We had a
good time.
Q. Did you go
to the beach anywhere else, like in the South when you were little?
A. We lived
in Wilmington, on Wrightsville Beach, so I imagine I went to the beach, when
I was about three. I don't remember.
Q. Your
grandfather had a store there. I guess your father ran it.
A. There was
the store in Wilmington that my father was taking care of.
Q. Then you
moved back when you were still young?
A. I only
stayed at the beach a little while, not too long.
Q. Do you
remember in Asheville where you went to school, grade school and high
school?
A. I guess I
went to Grove Park most of the time.
Q. Did you go
to Lee Edwards High School, Asheville High School?
A. I went to
Lee Edwards for about a year. I went to Fasifer??? in Hendersonville
for a year. I graduated from Grove Park School.
Q. Did you
know the Parkers? Josie Parker?
A. Jo Parker,
sure, ???
Q. And Mary
Parker?
A. Yeah.
Q. She worked
for Bon Marche, do you remember that? As an adult, she did.
She's still in Asheville, living on Charlotte Street in the same house.
She's the only one left.
A. The big
house across the street from the drug store.
Q. Yes, she's
the only one left and she stays there by herself. Of
A. She's
still there.
Q. But she
told me all of them went to Grove Park School. It was a private
school. Did you go on that trip to Europe for a year that Josie went
on?
A. My mother
was sick and they wouldn't let me go.
Q. But you
remember it?
A. Oh, yes.
My whole class went.
Q. And you
were the only one who couldn't go out of the whole class.
A. Mrs.
Fahrenheit???, they sent me instead to Fasifer??? in Hendersonville.
Q. So I
wonder, did they send you letters from Europe? I know that Josie wrote
Mary letters that she has.
A. If they
did I don't remember, I don't have any.
Q. How did
you meet your husband?
A. He came to
Asheville, and somebody had told him to look me up.
Q. Where had
he come from?
A. At that
time he was in Kingsport, Tennessee.
Q. What did
he do?
A. Had a
jewelry store.
Q. What was
the name of the jewelry store, do you remember?
A. I don't
remember. May have been Jay Jeweler.
Q. What was
his whole name?
A. Jesse.
Q. Jesse
Solomon. Where was he born?
A. In
Nashville, Tennessee.
Q. Now, did
his parents have a business in Nashville?, no?
A. He just
got out of school and needed a business, needed some work, so he opened a
little jewelry store in Kingsport.
Q. Did your
father want your husband to work in Bon Marche?
A. No.
Q. How come?
A. I have no
idea. You'll have to ask him.
Q. I can't,
that's why I'm asking you.
A. I have no
idea, but I doubt it. To begin with, he wasn't the only one, my two
??? were – my grandfather was probably still living. I don't think he
was, no, he died in 1915 –
Q. 1925.
What year did you get married?
A. '26.
Q. You were
married in 1926, so Solomon wasn't still alive. Do you remember much
about Kingsport? Did you live in Kingsport?
A. I lived
there several years, in fact bobby and – were both born in Kingsport.
Q. Did you
know the Thorps in Johnson City?
A. I don't
recall the name.
Q. So then
you came back to Asheville after that? After you were in Kingsport?
A. I think it
was when my husband -- ???
Q. Right, and
you lived with your father and mother for a while – no, yes –
A. Yes
Q. So how
many years were you in Asheville?
A. About two
or three – was about six then.
Q. So when
your husband came back from the war – what branch of the military was he in?
Army, Navy?
A. Army.
Q. Did he go
to Europe?
A. No, he
went to the Philippines.
Q. Where did
you live after he came back?
A. In
Kingsport.
Q. After he
came back, after the war did you live in Asheville or did you –
Daughter: After the war. After
the war we stayed in Asheville.
A.
Oh,
okay, my memory.
Q.
That's okay, you're doing great. Do you remember what kind of business
your husband did while you were in Asheville?
A.
He was in the plumbing business.
Q. Yeah, that
sounds pretty good.
Daughter: Plumbing and supply.
Drug store with the Clines, what was the Cline's name? Klein.
Daddy was in the drugstore business with him. Ben Klein.
A.
Right,
he and Ben Klein. In the drugstore right on the corner of Charlotte –
Q.
Right across from the Parkers, right. So do you remember what would
you do while he was at work?
A.
Take care of the children I guess.
Q.
Do you remember where you lived then, when they were small?
Daughter: 54 Lakeshore Drive.
A.
On
Lakeshore? First I lived on Avon.
Daughter: That
was when everybody was at war, and Jan and you and I and Betty and Sally,
and Joe and everybody else lived together on –
Q.
She said that, first we lived on Avon, then you lived on Lakeshore – Right.
Do you remember if you lived anywhere else in Asheville?
A. No.
Q.
Do you
remember then, when you were grown up, with children, did you go downtown
very much in Asheville, to shop or –
A.
Probably. It was a very small town. It's hard to tell.
Q.
Do you
remember what it was like? Can you describe what downtown Asheville
used to be like?
A.
When?
Q.
Probably in the 50s, 1950s when your girls were in school growing up.
A.
I don't know, I can't tell you a thing about years. I remember the
store that Ivy built for my grandfather, E. W. Grove built for my
grandfather, Ivy's –
Q.
Do you know how that happened?
A.
I don't know. My grandfather had died by that time. I don't
know. I can't remember. Ivy's came in and bought the thing out.
Some architect, whose name I don't remember, built the Bon Marche, across
the street.
Q.
Do you remember Mr. Grove?
A.
No. I don't think I ever knew Mr. Grove.
Q.
Did you know Mr. Vanderbilt?
A.
I met Mrs. Vanderbilt in the Bon Marche when it was on Haywood Street first.
I met her in the store.
Q.
Was she pretty nice?
A.
I guess he was like almost anybody. She was friendly. She was a
friend of my grandfather. She was friendly.
Q.
Now,
were you in the store to work or just to visit?
A.
To visit.
Q.
You didn't ever work in the store, did you?
A.
I don't think so.
Q.
Probably not, why would you, all those men were working in there.
A.
I never worked in the store.
Q.
Do you remember anybody with who worked in the store besides your
grandmother and your grandfather?
A. My aunt,
Hilda Goldsmith had charge of the lingerie departments for a long time.
I sort of have a – Weed. Too much recollection.
Q. So did you
always get all your clothes from Bon Marche?
A. Yes.
Q.
You never shopped anywhere else?
A. In New
York on buying trips.
Q. You
probably didn't have to even go in any other stores in Asheville, did you?
A. I don't
think I ever did.
Q. Well,
interviewed Dennis and Robert Winner, and they said they never went in any
other store in Asheville.
A. Really?
Q. Do you
remember Winner's? Harry Winner's store?
A. Sure.
Q. Well, his
sons told me that they never went in any other store, they didn't have to.
A. Right.
Q. So do you
remember what downtown was like when the old Battery Park Hotel was still
there?
A. Yes, I do
remember a little bit. Battery Park was up on the hill, and that road
was a winding road up there. But we went up there, I guess because you
go to hotels mainly to eat.
Q. Was it
real pretty?
A. Yeah, it
was beautiful, as I remember it. I thought it was a shame they tore
that whole hill down, but it was because it was beautiful. But it was
a hill.
Q. Big hill.
A. Yeah, big
hill.
Q. That's
what they used to fill in Battery Park Avenue where the Bon Marche moved
later.
A. I wouldn't
be surprised. I don't know for sure.
Q. Did you
ever go to the S&W Cafeteria?
A. All the
time.
Q. What do
you remember about it?
A. Not a
thing except that I went there to eat.
Q. Did you
meet friends there? Did you meet people there?
A. I could
not tell you that, I don't know.
Q. Can you
tell me who some of your friends were? Do you remember some of your
friends, childhood friends or people who were your early married years
friends?
A. Who comes
to mind, Joanna Sternberg comes to mind. Lichtenfields???, but they
were younger.
Q. Which
Lichtenfelds ???, Gus?
A. Joe and –
no, Gus was the father. Joe and –
Q. Wasn't it
Carolyn? They had a daughter named Francis? Joe and Jodi
Lichtenfields, but, are you talking about Joe's sister? Joe had a
sister.
A. What was
her name? Helen.
Q. Oh, Helen
Gumpert. Helen, that's right. Now Joe was really good friends
with my cousin Leonard, the one who said he went out with you. They
were best friends. Rapport. That's okay. Anybody else you
remember?
A. The
Schochet boy, his name was Gene, I think, is that right?
Q. Right.
A. And there
were two or three boys his age, I don't think who they were.
Q. Well, my
dad was Sidney, other boys, I don't know. Did you know my Aunt Lillian
Schochet?
A. I knew her
slightly.
Q. You
probably knew, I bet, the Bloombergs who were Sigmund and Nat and Frieda and
Edna.
A. Frieda was
my aunt, she married my uncle.
Q. Your uncle
Marcus Stern? Who was your uncle that she married?
A. Walter
Stern.
Q. Right, was
Marcus Stern related to Walter Stern? No, okay. She was your
aunt, well you know what, she was my cousin, that means we're related.
A. She was
your real cousin and she was my married aunt. Are we talking about
Frieda, she knew everything. And when Look Homeward Angel came out she
told me every single character who was in it. I've forgotten now, but
she knew who every one of them were.
Q.
Was
she red-headed? I remember her. I remember Aunt Frieda,
red-head. Mother's right. She –
A.
She
knew everything and everybody. There wasn't anything she didn't know
about. She was, oh, what's his sister, Harry. Harry sold daddy
the Cadillac, so he must have been in the business.
Q.
Yes,
he sold Cadillacs, and Pontiacs. So your father always bought cars
from Harry?
A. I wouldn't know that, but he always had a
Cadillac. That's all I know.
Q.
Do you
remember any other people? Did you remember that Frieda played the
piano?
A.
Yeah, I think so.
Q.
I remember she made things, made flower arrangements and all kind of things.
A.
I don't remember.
Q.
I heard she had a toy store out Patton Avenue. When you were really
little, do you remember going to Montford Park?
A.
Very
very faint kind of recollection, I don't really remember, but just a kind of
recollection. I went to Montford Park.
Q.
Did it have a fountain?
A.
It was right down the street from us.
Q.
Was there a fountain there?
A. I don't
know.
Q. Did you
remember Riverside Park?
A. Yes, but
very faintly. The streetcar ran up around the base – where – was then,
down the mountain, to the shore down there. I can't remember much
about it, but I know there was – I don't know, like a seaside, I guess you
would say –
Q. Like a
pavilion? It was the river –
A. I'm
thinking of the river, went down to the river. The streetcar went down
there.
Q. You might
ask about the big flood, she remembers that.
A. I remember
the big flood, my father took me down to Biltmore and held me up in his arms
so I could see the water all over everything.
Q. That was
kind of scary wasn't it?
A. I don't
remember.
Q. Was that
when Sally was born and they couldn't get to the hospital?
A. I think it
was Judy. Sally was born at home, maybe that's what it was. She
was born in 1915 or 16.
Q. What year
were you born?
A. 1910.
Q. So you
were six years old when that flood happened.
A. That's
about right. And we went down to the edge, my father held me up, that
whole place was covered, Biltmore was covered with water.
Q. Did your
father have a car? Is that how you got down to Biltmore?
A. I imagine
he had a car.
Q. I was
going to ask you what did you do, like when you were a little child for
play? Did you have friends you went to their house or did you go – you
don't remember that. Do you remember, for example, where you went on
dates? Did you go to Riverside Park for dates?
A. No, wasn't
Riverside Park when I dated.
Q. What did
you do? How would you all entertain yourselves?
A. The only
dates I remember were going to parties, but I don't know what we did on
dates. We probably went up to the top of the mountain.
Q. Who had
the parties?
A. Most
everybody went to the top of the mountain.
Q. Which
mountain?
A. Parties, I
don't remember.
Q. Sunset
Mountain, behind the Grove Park Inn?
A. Yes,
Sunset, is that the name of it?
Q. There was
a park up there.
A. There was
a parking lot up there.
Q. We had a
different mountain we went up, Elk Mountain, we went up Elk Mountain.
Do you remember when the Grove Park Inn first started?
A. No.
Q. Did you
all ever go up to the Grove Park Inn, to eat or do anything?
A. I was
there, but I don't know, I couldn't tell you what I did there, or why.
But been there. That's when the columns were stone, they were not
covered over.
Q. You are
right about that.
Daughter: I think they got into
moonshine, when they were coming of age.
Q. Did you
ever have moonshine?
A. Yeah, a
lot of it. We rode up, behind Bingham School was a still, and we rode
up to that still with the gallon jugs.
Q. Who's
"we"?
A. Whoever
the boys were around. Whatever boys were around, I don't remember.
We rode up to – down that hill and back to the still and had the gallon jugs
filled with white lightning.
Q. Then what
happened?
A. We went
home and drank it.
Q. You didn't
drink all of it did you?
A. I guess
between everybody it got drunk.
Q. And then
you got drunk.
A. That I
wouldn't be surprised.
Q. Do you
remember who any of the boys were?
A. Who they
were? Not really. I remember one called sue ??? and Charlie and
Billy. Billy was killed in the war. There were a whole bunch of
them. I can't remember. Earl???
Q. Were they
mostly –
A. The
football team.
Q. Were they
mostly Montford kids?
A. No, kids
from high school. At that time ??? was high school. We took the
streetcar. We were close enough to walk to town anytime we wanted to,
on Montford, but when we went to school we took the streetcar to the square,
and generally walked from the square down to the school.
Q. Do you
remember going to temple?
A. With my
grandfather. Rabbi Jacobsen, on Saturday mornings, he was there on the
pulpit. My grandfather, with Amos, would pick me up. Amos was
his chauffeur, in the Ford. He picked me up in the Ford, never the
Cadillac, always the Ford ???. And we went to temple on Saturday
mornings. Grandpa sat on the pulpit with rabbi Jacobsen, and I sat in
the front row, period.
Q. That was
it, nobody else? Did you go on Friday night ever, to temple?
A.
Occasionally.
Q. But you
went a lot on Saturday.
A. I went
when my grandfather took me. He died when I was 15.
Q. Did you go
to Sunday school and were you confirmed?
A. No, I
wasn't. There was a confirmation class, I think it was either before
me or after me, I can't remember. But I was in the middle, so I never
was confirmed or anything else.
Q. Did your
family keep kosher?
A. No.
Q. Did they –
did you go to college?
A. Went to
the University of Wisconsin for two years.
Q. Did you
graduate?
A. For two
years, then I went to New York and went to Parson's School, for a year, and
Traphagen??? Art School for a year. Then I went back to – Asheville,
then I went to Florida, and I worked in Florida for a little while.
Then I've forgotten –
Q. Was it in
Palm Beach?
A. Miami.
Q. I know who
you remember who's about your age, and she went to Parson's also, is Miriam
Cooper.
A. Yeah,
sure, I knew Miriam very well, and Margery. They were good friends.
Q. Well,
Miriam is still in Asheville. She's still there.
A. I thought
Miriam died.
Q. No,
Margery died. She had cancer a long time ago.
A. A long
time ago. Miriam is still around? Call her and tell her I said
hello. How old is she?
Q. 90.
A. Good
heavens, she was one of my good friends. She was younger than I am, I
think. I am not sure, I think a year or two younger.
Q. I'll give
her your phone number.
A. I don't
talk well on the phone. That's interesting, I would never have thought
she was still living. Miriam wants my green chair –
Daughter:
I have it, you'll have to tell Miriam it's in my living room.
Q.
I will. Maybe I can send you a copy of her interview.
A.
Miriam always said, "Will me your green chair ."
Daughter: I'll
do that if you want me to.
A.
She's a great lady. I can't imagine that she's still alive.
Q. Oh, yeah, she's doing pretty well. She's
very spry. She's in a nursing home, but she's spry.
A. Who else is around?
Q. Did you ever know a man named George Roberts?
A.
Not that I remember.
Q.
He's your age. We just interviewed him, and he lived right next-door
to the Bingham School, but he didn't mention the still. Maybe he
didn't know about it.
A. Maybe he
didn't. Maybe it was one of those things. The teenagers knew
about it, although he was a teenager, I guess. You can ask him about
the still in behind the school. I don't think it was – I don't know if
it was Bingham School or not.
Q. Do you
remember Chandler's?
A. Yes.
Aaron.
Q. Did you
remember the store that his father had?
A. The
grocery store, sure.
Q. Did you
buy things from there?
A. They had
special things.
Q. Like what?
A. I don't
remember.
Q. They had a
lot of Jewish food.
A. I guess
that's what I'm thinking.
Q. Would your
parents have gotten food from there?
A. I don't
know, because they didn't particularly go for Jewish food.
Q. They
didn't eat lox or – corned beef or anything –
A. Not
particularly. But I did. I used to shop there, and I don't
remember whether mother did or not.
Q. Do you
remember a store called Palais Royal, Morris Myers?
A. I remember
the name. I don't remember anything –
Q. He was
married to Eva Elleck??? did you know who she was?
A. One of my
relatives.
Q. She was
Solomon Lipinsky's half sister.
A. I know her
name, I knew she was an Elleck???, a name I'm supposed to know, from
Richmond. So who was –
Q. Morris
Myers was married to Eva Elleck, but she died, I think only about two years
after they were married, I think before you were born. He originally
came to Asheville, he worked in the store that was S. Lipinsky, before Bon
Marche, the very first store that Solomon Lipinsky had, he worked in it.
On South Main, which was Biltmore.
A. Biltmore
Avenue, toward the square. He had that store when he first came, in
88, 87, 89, whatever.
Q. But you
don't remember that store, because I think it might have moved. They
moved when you were one year old, to Patton Avenue.
A. No, that
was way before I was a year old. I wasn't born until 1910, and that
was in 18 – 1886 or 87.
Q. Were you
born at home or in a hospital, do you know?
A. I have no
idea. Sally's the only one I remember being born at home.
Q. Do you
remember the other Jewish synagogue, the one that was on South Liberty, on
the other side of Woodfin, the synagogue? The conservative – what was
it called? You just said it. The other synagogue, conservative
synagogue.
A. Oh, it was
–
Q. Bicker
colem???
A. I don't
remember.
Daughter: The
Bards belonged to it, the conservative.) They did? I don't
remember that. Down on Liberty Street. Still there?
Q. No, not
that one. Actually, neither of the synagogues are where they were when
you remembered. The temple moved to North Liberty and Broad, in 1949,
that you remember, and that's still there. And the synagogue moved to
Murdock in 1964. Runs parallel to Merrimon. Near Woolsy-Dip, do
you remember Wools y-Dip, an area of Merrimon Avenue going north called
Woolsy-Dip, I don't know what was there – a grocery store, and a town hall,
and a drug store, because Mr. Roberts worked in a drug store. No, she
didn't remember that.
A. There was
a lot of time I wasn't there. After all, I left when I got married.
I might have left before I got married.
Q. Sounds
like you did, you lived in New York to go to school.
A. I went to
school at least two years in New York. Before that it was the
University of Wisconsin.
Q. That was
in Madison? What were you studying in Madison, do you remember?
A. Art.
Q. So you
were quite the artist.
A. Supposed
to be.
Q. Do you
remember meeting the Cone sisters from Baltimore?
A. No, I
never did.
Q. Do you
know who they were?
A. Yes, of
course. They were Mrs. Strong's ??? sisters, and I knew Mrs. Sloan
very well. Of course I was little, so the way I know her is with the
mind of a little child. And he, I can remember him better because he
had all this white hair on his head and – Mr. Long. Her sisters were
the Baltimore – then there was the Greensboro group who owned the cotton
mills.
Q. Moses and
Cesar Cone were her brothers.
A. And Gus
Lichtenfield worked for the cotton mill, down at the end of Patton Avenue,
you looked down the hill and it was there.
Q. Did
Sternberg work there too? Sternberger?
A. Oh, yeah,
Sternberg. He was a character.
Q. What was
he like?
A. A
character. Don't ask me what a character's like. He was a
character.
Q. So –
A. He was the
father of my best friend.
Q. Who was
that?
A. Joanna.
And Eva, of course. But he was a real character, and he kept a lot of
white white liquor, moonshine, on his closet shelf, that we found.
Everybody got drunk I guess. Everybody knew where it was, have a drink
if they wanted it.
Q. How old do
you think you were when that happened?
A. About in
my – 18, 19, 20. I was old, I wasn't young. I was drinking age.
Q. So it
sounds like you kind of knew everybody who had the moonshine around, if
somebody wanted any they could ask you.
A. I knew
plenty about it.
Q. So it
sounds like you had fun growing up. Did you have a good time growing
up?
A. I think
so. I can't remember not having a good time. I can remember
tracking ??? what is it they call – checking the drag or whatever.
Q. Is that a
kind of dance?
A. Taking the
car up and down –
Q. Oh,
dragging, yeah,. Where did you drag? What street?
A. Patton
Avenue, from the square to Haywood Street, and turn around and back up to
the square, back down, back up, back down. Pick up somebody here,
somebody there. You never had an empty car.
Q. Was that
on Saturday night?
A. No, mostly
after school.
Q. Who had
the car?
A .
I did. I had the family car, a Chevy, a roadster, whatever it was.
Q.
What color was it?
A. Maybe it was green, I don't know.
Q. Who taught you to drive?
A. It had a rumble seat, that's all I
remember.
Q.
Who taught you to drive?
A.
Amos, my grandfather's chauffeur, he taught me to drive when I was about 15.
Q.
He must have taught you pretty well.
A.
I don't know.
Q.
Nothing was automatic then, you had to do all the gears on the wheel.
A.
Oh, sure.
Q.
Do you remember Pollock's Shoe Store? Somebody, sort of during the
Depression, they used to have these dance contests in the window, do you
remember that?
A. No.
Q. Did you
remember they had a big – the Christmas parades or what downtown was like
during Christmas? Not really? Do you remember the rhododendron
festival?
A. The
parade.
Q. Baby
parade, I heard there was a different parade every day.
A.
I don't know I only remember the big parade. Mostly Biltmore Forest
people.
Q.
Do you know who lived in the house – there was some Lipinsky who lived on
Forest Hills, in Sheridan, close to Biltmore Avenue in Kenilworth?
A.
Yeah, Aunt Helen and Uncle Whitt.
Q.
Did you ever go into that house?
A.
Oh, sure.
Q.
So you visited your aunts and uncles, all of them, pretty regularly?
A.
Yeah, the girls were my age, I went over there a lot.
Q.
Who were their children, the girls?
A.
Rosalyn was the oldest. And Peggy was the youngest . Elaine.
Betty would remember.
Q. We'll call
her and find out.
A. Anyway,
those children all went to St. Genevieve, because they lived just across the
street from Victoria Drive, right on the hill, first house.
Q. They were
your age or older, younger?
A.
Younger. Rosalyn was the oldest and she was younger than I.
There was Elaine, Peggy –
Daughter:
Uncle Lewis? Sonny, and what were their children's name, lived on
Kimberly. Lewis junior, married Mary. He was adopted, Lewis
junior. The other son was their son – Lewis junior was the only
adopted one. They had two other children, a girl and a boy. I
don't remember.
Q. Did you
remember Leo Finkelstein?
A. Oh, sure,
real well.
Q. Was he
about your age? A little older?
A. A little
older. Sylvia, his wife, I don't know if they had any children.
Q. They had
Leo, Junior, and I think there's a sister, but I'm not sure. Leo Jr.
is about your age. Did you know people from Biltmore Forest, were you
friends with people from Biltmore Forest?
A. I knew
some, I don't remember who. I doubt I knew them very well.
Q. Did you
ever feel like you experienced any type of anti-Semitism when you were
growing up in Asheville?
A. Probably.
Not especially, I didn't, but there was a lot of it.
Q. Like –
A. Like the
rhododendron ball was off limits.
Q. The
debutante, country club. Did you all belong to the Asheville Country
Club?
A. I guess at
one time. We lived across the street.
Q. Did
anybody ever say anything to you personally that was anti-Semitic or
anything?
A. No, never.
And I went mostly with Gentiles.
Q. Why was
that?
A.
Because there weren't very many Jewish people to go with. And all of
my school friends were, except for Joanna Sternberg, she was the only Jewish
girl I remember.
Q.
That was your age, in school.
A.
Yeah, but all the rest of them, the Parker girls, Mary Parker, Ruth Lan???
And ??? Westall, related to oh, what's his name? Thomas Wolfe.
Q.
Oh, Emily Westall.
A.
Lived in a brick house on Chestnut Street. And I stayed over there a
lot of the time.
Q.
Did you know Thomas Wolfe?
A.
No. He's older than I am.
Q.
Did you know his center Maybelle?
A.
Yes, I knew her very well, because she was always at Westalls. I
forget what I called her. Probably called her ???. Then one time
I met Mrs. Wolfe, and I guess it was Maybelle, in the grocery store.
And I remember Mrs. Wolfe turning and saying you're too high hat to speak to
me, or something like that.
Q.
Was she teasing you?
A.
I didn't even recognize the woman.
Q.
Was she teasing you?
A.
No, I just didn't recognize her. I guess I was supposed to say hello,
or something.
Q.
Do you know what grocery store that was?
A.
I don't know whatever that grocery was.
Q.
Where was it?
A.
Not far from West Avon.
Q.
Maybe the A and P. Do you remember the grocery store on Montford
Avenue?
A.
The little grocery store on Courtland?
Q.
The one on Soco, at 235 Montford, and you lived at 211.
A.
I don't remember that at all.
Q.
You were talking about one owned by Mr. Book?
A.
I don't know who owned it. It was a little grocery store where you got
penny candy, over on, I believe, Courtland Avenue.
Q.
It was Mr. Book, I believe, he had one on Cherry Street I know, but there
were several of those. Mr. Book. Cherry and Montford.
Daughter: Mama, who were some of the friends in the bridge group, that
you played every week.
A.
Lotti??? Rose, and Mary – what was her name?
Q.
Gottleib?
A.
I forget her name. (end of first tape/CD)
Q.
Okay, so
the Striflings played bridge – tell pee who those people were.
A.
The Grands, Rose and Ruben; and the Striflings; Annette and Joe –
Q.
Sternberg?
A.
Yeah.
Q.
And you and your husband. And the Striflings had two children.
So how often would you play bridge? Was it every week?
A.
Probably once a week. Rose would paint the cards up, when you were
going over to Country Day – Rose held – they made cards, I guess words on
them, and she held the cards up for you to tell her what they were.
You were in the first grade at Country Day – second, at Country Day.
Q.
I don't remember the dancing part, she said they went dancing every
Saturday. Where did you go dancing every Saturday night?
A.
Up the mountain.
Q.
The Sky Club?
A.
What was it called, yeah, it was called the Sky Club.
Q.
Who went?
A.
I don't know, I remembered very well Annette and Joe went. I'm pretty
sure the Grands went, probably the Striflings. I don't know – I don't
remember who all went.
Q.
Did they have live bands play?
A.
Yeah, I think so. I'm not sure, I think so.
Q.
Did they serve liquor there?
A.
I don't know whether they served it, we had it.
Q.
They probably had where you brought your own liquor –
A.
I really don't remember.
A.
The Sky Club was fun, it was great.
Q.
Had a good view?
A.
Oh, sure, beautiful, but nobody looked at the view.
Q.
What were they looking at?
A.
Well, we went to dance and to eat.
Q.
Was the food very good there?
A.
I don't know, but we ate and danced. A lot of people were there.
Q.
You went to have a good time.
A.
Right. A lot of people were there.
Q.
Do you remember any other people who were there that you didn't go with, but
you saw?
A.
People from town, I don't know who they might have been. But that was
much later. That's when I was married.
Q.
Well, that's okay, that counts. You had a good time when you were
married.
A.
Oh, Yeah.
Q.
Sounds like you had a pretty good time when you weren't married too.
A.
I had a real good time in my younger days.
Q.
Do you remember anything else wild you used to do besides get liquor and
drag?
A.
That's not really wild.
Q.
Well, it was teenage, wasn't it?
A.
We called a Coke a dope.
Q.
That's what you called a Coke.
A.
You asked for a dope, you didn't ask for a Coke.
Q.
Where did you do that?
A.
In the drugstore, everybody from high school – Well, not everybody, but a
certain crowd from the high school would go to the drug store. I think
it was called Boone's, after school, and take up all the booths, and
everybody I guess, ordered a dope, meaning a Coca-Cola.
Q.
Did you eat food or just drink Cokes?
A.
No, I think they would just order the dope or something. Because we
didn't have any money.
Q.
So you socialized there after school.
A.
Yeah.
Q.
There were a lot of drugstores downtown, that was your main hangout, though?
A.
That's the only one I remember. I don't remember any others.
Q.
Well, they might have actually been later, the ones I'm thinking of.
Did you remember – trying to think of other stores up and down the street.
Did you remember Perlman's Furniture, the original? Railroad salvage.
A.
I was going to say, it wasn't furniture originally. It was railroad
salvage, up on Haywood Street. I used to buy rice up there.
Q.
Why rice?
A.
Rice, she got – she would get – I don't know why I bought rice there, but
whatever it was, it was railroad salvage before it was a furniture store,
and then Fred made it into a furniture store. I didn't know if you had
anything to drink, because I don't have anything – I'm sorry, I should have
thought to get something.
Q.
Did you know Milton Lurie? Lurie? Milton Lurie, did you remember
Milton Lurie? Did you remember the Vanderbilt Shirt Factory? He
had a business called upon Vanderbilt Shirt Factory. No, Cashmere was
Hadley Corporation, and that was in the 50s, with the Habers.
A.
Lurie, wasn't there somebody else called Lurie, besides Milton?
Q.
Milton's wife was Mildred Lurie, and she was a Wadopian. Mildred
Lurie. Mill ton married mill Mildred. And Milton did have a
sister, you're right, and I can't remember her name.
Q.
Did you know Sol Shulman?
A.
The Schwartzburgs, I went with mill ton a long time –
Q.
Now, I don't remember that family, but my cousin Babs Bloomberg was telling
me about Mrs. Schwartzburg –
A.
His sister, I can't think of her name, moved to Charlotte. He moved to
Atlanta, and his sister married and moved to Charlotte. Now, I don't
know whether she's around or not.
Q.
Did you remember Sol Shulman, he lived in Sylva, or the Lessings?
That's too far away –
A.
I guess the Pollocks were there.
Q.
We interviewed Betty Pollock yesterday. She's in Atlanta.
A.
She is?
Q.
Yes, and we interviewed –
A.
She lived in Florida once.
Q.
No, that was her sister Mildred. Mildred is still in Florida.
A.
Oh, is Mildred still around?
Q.
Yes, she's still around, she's about your age.
A. She's
younger than I am. Quite a bit younger than I am.
Q.
She just had her 90th birth day.
A.
I know she's married and runs around a lot. I hear she really gets
around.
Q.
I think she's on her fifth husband.
A.
Maybe four or five, but I don't think she's got to the fifth one yet.
She's had this one a long time. Really a long time. I know they
traveled a lot.
Q.
That's Mildred.
A.
Sylvia Strifling keeps up with Mildred, and I keep up with Sylvia Strifling,
so whatever news I get from Sylvia, is about Mildred, is what I know.
Q.
Well, she was in Asheville last –
A.
Jenny lives in Asheville.
Q.
Last November. She was in Asheville last November, they had a big
birthday party for her.
A.
Because Kenny lives here and all her grandchildren.
Q.
Richard lives in Camden, South Carolina. I'll tell you about him.
So you are remembering pretty well. Unfortunately I can't remember all
these people that are your same age. Who else?
Daughter:
Mother, there was a Pollock who came in the summer time or who lived up near
Rosalyn Cooley, right there across from Mount Vernon. And Cookie
Rifkin used to come and stay with her, it was or grandmother. Who was
that? Were the Rifkins and the Pollocks related? I can't
remember the name. It was Cookie Rifkin's grandmother, used to come
for the summer.
Q.
Might have been another Pollock.
A.
They lived up at the top of the hill.
Daughter: Some
older woman, would have been a lot older than you. Have you run into
the Horowitzs? There was a Horowitz that lived right there.
Rosalyn Coolie, lived right here on Mount Vernon, across the treat were the
Horowitzs, and right across the street this way –
Q.
Horowitz or Orowitz?
Daughter: I
don't remember. Frankie –
Q.
That's Orowitz.
Daughter:
Whatever happened to them?
A.
Wasn't he going to be a doctor or something? I know he went to school
at – I forget. And what's her name, Jan's friend, that lives in
Canada.
Daughter:
Debbie Burnham.
Q.
What did their family do?
Daughter: The
mother was a math teacher, Mrs. Burnham was a math teacher at Lee Edwards.
Right on that side street going down by the Doctors.
Q.
I was going to ask, Michael Doctor was just through town last summer and –
were you friends with the Doctor family?
A.
Very close, some of my best friends.
Q.
Betty?
A.
And Milton, and then he married Ruth Perlman. When Betty died, Milton
married Ruth Perlman, they lived out in Phoenix or somewhere. He had a
couple of sons.
Q.
Yeah, Michael and I don't remember the other ones name. Michael lives
in Washington state, he's a lawyer. He was just in Asheville, I saw
him in March, I think I saw him. I had never met him before, but he
was very nice.
A.
What did he come for? Does he have anybody is there?
Q.
That's who was related to Melissa Fay Green. They were going to a bar
mitzvah in Atlanta, and they came up to Asheville, because it's not too far
away, if you live in Washington, to come to Asheville from Atlanta.
A.
If you've been there and you want to see it again, I'm sure it's different.
Q.
I'm sure it's different from what you remember too.
A.
My niece bought a house on Montford Avenue –
Q.
Which niece?
A.
Sally's daughter.
Daughter:
Sally is mother's center who lives in California. My niece lives in
Washington, the name is
Daughter:
Robbie – sorry, they bought a house –
A.
They looked at 211, but it was too torn up to buy. But they bought a
house on the corner –
Q.
Which corner?
A.
Montford and – you know where Dr. – I can't remember. One block toward
town from where we lived at 211 Montford, the same block, one block down
from Courtland and one block up from –
Q.
Bearden?
Daughter: I
live at 333 Montford Avenue, right next to Montford Park.
A.
You're way down there, my friend lived on the next street, what's that?
Q.
Watauga?
A.
Going up.
Q.
Panola?
A.
Doesn't matter.
Q.
Who was your best friend?
A.
Lydia Creedo – wouldn't mean anything to you, didn't know anybody else.
Q.
Did she live in a really big house?
A.
211 Montford, that wasn't such a big house – five bedrooms, but –
Q.
Your friend, Lillian Credo, was her house really big?
A.
Lydia, she lived, yeah, right across the street from – the street goes up.
Q.
It's Watauga.
A.
No, she didn't have any money, she didn't have anything. She was just
my friend. She married an Englishman, they moved to Charlotte, got a
divorce, I don't know, she was an alcoholic.
Daughter: Sad.
A.
Yeah.
Daughter:
Anyhow, this first cousin of mine will be moving down and they have an
11-year-old –
Q.
Wait, you were thinking of somebody, your other friend, the Rhodes?
Yeah, Vern Rhodes –
A.
Jewelry store on the corner of Patton and Haywood.
Q.
R-h-o-d-e-s, Rhodes?
A.
Yeah, Rhodes.
Q.
Well, there are some Rhodes that live on Merrimon, Vern Rhodes, but I don't
know that they ever had a jewelry store. I think he was more of like a
lawyer or worker. I could be wrong.
Q.
Somebody named Rhodes had a jewelry store. What was the girls name?
A.
Lotti, remember, she was my breast best friend.
Daughter: I
remember the store, you leave Ivy's, go around – she was just a center of
Bill who owned the store. He married Mildred – lady who baked the
cakes, the pound cakes. I can't remember. We bought pound cakes
from this lady. They were out of this world. I can still taste
them.
Q.
They must have been good. I think there was a jewelry store called
Bright's for a long time, must have been before Bright's.
Daughter:
Where did some of your uncles live? You had two uncles?
A.
Whitlock, he lived right across the street from the – Victoria Roads I guess
you would call it. Toward Kenilworth, right across from Victoria Road.
Q.
Where did your other uncle live?
A.
Uncle Lewis lived on Kimberly, right on the corner of Kimberly and whatever
street that was, I don't know.
Daughter:
Somebody told me Mabel Wolfe lived on Kimberly.
A.
I think she lived maybe on Chestnut.
Q.
Did you know the Greens who lived on Montford?
A.
They had the hardware store. I knew them I'm sure, because I knew
everybody down there, but I don't recall –
Daughter: Otis
Green.
A.
I know that they lived right there.
Q.
Did you remember the Norburn Hospital?
A.
Yeah, well, I remember, yeah,.
Q.
What about Highland Hospital and Dr. Carroll?
A.
Because my Aunt Clara was there, and my mother was there.
Q.
At highland?
A.
So I know about highland.
Q.
Did they live there? Stay there?
A.
My aunt stayed there a while, and then she went up to Richmond and stayed,
lived up in Richmond, near Richmond, where most of her family were.
Because Grandpa came from Richmond. Most of the family were in
Richmond. My father used to go and see her up there.
Q.
Did you ever go to Richmond to see relatives? No?
A.
I've never been to Richmond.
Q.
What do you remember about Highland Hospital?
A.
Not much, except that my mother was there, my aunt was there. My Aunt
Clara was there, but she was not there at the same time that my mother was
there. And my mother was not there for long, I don't think.
Q.
Do you remember the Rumbaugh's?
A.
Well, I know the name.
Q.
They had a big house that was later part of the hospital.
A.
Oh, it was? I remember the name.
Q.
It would be right down Montford Avenue.
A.
I know, right down by the end, by the park. Did they build up the
park?
Q.
It's still a park.
A.
It's still a park? I'll be darned.
Q.
But the Klondyke, the mansion is gone. Did you remember that, the big
mansion at the very end of the road? Very end of Montford?
A.
I remember the mansion, I don't remember the people.
Q.
The man who owned it was a lawyer.
Daughter: Then
we had the Van Winkles on Watauga, did you know the Van Winkles?
A.
I remember Ginger as a young girl. She was so pretty. But you
haven't seen her?
Q.
Not in a long time, since she moved away.
Daughter: You
were friends with her parents?
A.
I would say they were our best friends. My husband ate breakfast at
their house every Sunday morning.
Q.
Without you?
A.
Without me.
Q.
Why, were they playing cards together or something?
A.
No, he just went over there for breakfast. I probably didn't get up to
get any. So he went over there for breakfast every Sunday morning.
Q.
Now, where did they live? Were they close?
A.
I remember the house but I don't remember where it was.
Q.
Beaver Lake?
A.
Somewhere in Beaver Lake, but I don't remember really.
Q.
So how did you all become such close friends?
A.
I couldn't tell you that. I don't have any idea.
Q.
Did you ever buy furs –
A.
The whole group of us, the Sternbergs, the Grands, who else, I don't know,
there was a lot more, that Sylvia and Ray and –
Q.
Who's Sylvia and Ray?
Daughter: The
ones we were talking about, Strifling.
Q.
Did you ever buy fur coats from Vogue Furrier?
A.
No. If I ever bought a fur coat it was from the Bon Marche. I never
bought a fur coat.
Q.
That's good for you. Politically correct at an early age.
A.
Well, just because I didn't have the money to buy one.
Daughter: What
do you remember the most about Asheville, living in Asheville?
A.
Remember the most, let me see. I guess Haywood Street, riding up and
down, checking the drag on Haywood Street. Going to school, sitting on
the wall watching the Bingham boys go up and down on Sundays.
Q.
What wall was that?
A.
In front of our house. Not much. Very little do I remember.
Q.
Do you think it was a good place to grow up?
A.
I think it must have been, I certainly enjoyed it. I remember the Bon
Marche, when they went in the new building, I remember my grandfather very
well. I used to Go to New York. He would take me to my
grandparents up there, and I know we would stop off in Salisbury where he
had relatives. So we had relatives in Statesville, Salisbury, the
train stopped and changed engines down there.
Q.
Were they Lipinskys also, do you know?
A.
No, they may have been on my grandmother's side. She was a Whitlock.
They were probably on the Whitlock side. He used to go to Richmond
quite a bit, to see his family. Her family, I should say.
Q.
On the train?
A.
I don't know how he went. I didn't go with him. I never went to
Richmond. I only went to Atlantic City with him one time. I
would go to New York with him. She would go to New York, I would have
a ??? I would go with them to New York.
Q.
do you know what the family in the other towns did, like the ones in
Statesville?
A.
I don't know. The ones in Richmond, I have no idea.
Daughter:
Wasn't somebody in the sugar industry in Richmond?
A.
Not sugar, tobacco. Yeah, the Whitlocks made all of their money in the
tobacco business, mostly because they sold out to that vein of tobacco
companies. Then they got all of their money.
Q.
They sold to Phillip-Morris?
A.
I don't know, it was tobacco.
Q.
So what happened when the Depression came? What happened to Bon Marche
then?
A.
Oh, it was bad, real bad. I think they went into bankruptcy, pretty
sure they did.
Q.
But then they opened up a new store across the street?
A.
That was a little later.
Q.
They got out of that Depression thing. I don't know how, the bank lent
them some money. But I guess they had to move, because they must have
gotten – didn't have any money, I don't know they weren't broke or whatever.
So they had to give up the store. That was way after grandpa died, so
he didn't know about it, thank goodness.
Q.
But what about your dad, what was he like? Do you remember how he was
feeling then?
A.
??? he was a character.
Q.
I meant during the Depression, with the store.
A.
I don't know, truthfully. I really don't remember. My father was
a person of his own – his own something. His own self I guess you'd
say. They don't make two alike.
Q.
Did he get along with his brothers?
A.
I doubt it.
Q.
Did he
get along with you?
A.
Yeah.
Q.
That's good. Weren't they in business together? Who owned the
store when it reopened, after the Depression?
A.
I don't know, I wasn't around. And I don't really know –
Daughter: She
was gone by then. She was in college.
Q.
But you didn't have to come out of college, right, you could still stay in
college?
A.
After two years I went to New York, to art school. Stayed with my
grandparents in New York. The one memory I have that's real bright I
guess you'd say, of my father, was before the chestnut blight they were
roasting chestnuts on every corner, and he would bring bags of chestnuts,
and we would go down – I would go downtown and get me a bag of chestnuts.
And I remember he loved those chestnuts. But then they had the blight
and there were never anymore chestnuts. It was a shame, they were so
good, nothing like them ever since.
Q.
Do you remember Riverside Cemetery, and visiting your grandfather's grave?
A.
Yeah. I remember that. And my mother and father are buried
there. But I haven't been in Asheville in years. I don't know
how long it's been so long.
Daughter: How
many of us lived in the house on West Avon during that year that I lived
there?
A.
I guess everybody. Practically everybody. Sally and Betty, I
don't think the boys lived there, though.
Daughter:
They were in the war.
Q.
So what was Asheville like during the war? Did a lot of your friends
move back home?
During that war
it was a blackout town. All we knew was blackout, curtains, had to buy
blackout curtains, that I had for years. I don't know what happened to
them. It was all blackout, and then there were ??? on the street, that
walked up and down the street and it was bad. And everything was
rationed, you had to have coupons to buy anything. LI mean mostly
sugar and meat, those kind of things. It was pretty bad, not like any
war anybody else ever saw.
Q.
So were people afraid that something was going to happen there?
A.
Sure, because they learned how to get under the desks, the children learned
how to get under the desks. I don't know, it was bad. It was not
good.
Q.
And after the war did your family still all stay in Asheville or did some of
them move away?
A.
We stayed, and my husband came home from the Army.
Q.
But what about the other people that lived in the house on Avon? Did
they move away from Asheville?
A.
Betty –
Daughter:
Moved to New Rochelle. Sally moved to Elizabethton, Tennessee.
A.
And we moved to Kingsport.
Daughter: No,
no, we stayed in Asheville, and Joe and jimmy stayed in Asheville.
A.
When did we go to Kingsport?
Daughter: That
was before the war.
A.
Before the war.
Q.
That's where you moved from to move back to Asheville.
Q.
I think we've taken enough time.
A.
I'm a little fuzzy about when things happened.
Q.
That's okay –
A.
I know they happened but I can't figure out when they happened.
Q.
You did really great. Thank you very much.
A.
I don't know if I didn't tell you anything, what good you did.
Daughter: They
got confirmation on a lot of stuff.
A.
I didn't really know anything.
Q.
Yes, you did.
End of Interview
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