University of North Carolina at Asheville
D. Hiden Ramsey Library
Special Collections/University Archives

Oral History Register
for

Dorothy Joynes, 1920-

OH-VOA J69 Do

Voices of Asheville Oral History Collection
D.H. Ramsey Library Special Collections, UNCA

Title

Creator

Janet Webb and John Toms for Voices of Asheville Oral History Collection

Subject

LCSH:
Joynes, Dorothy, 1920-
Silveri, Dr. Louis D.
Oral History
Race relations -- North Carolina
Tuberculosis -- Hospitals -- North Carolina
Depressions -- 1929 -- North Carolina -- Asheville
World War, 1939-1945

Subject

Keyword: Santa Barbara Historical Society ; College for Seniors ; Race relations ; Southern Highlands Research Center ; Unitarian Universalist Church

Description

Abstract: Joynes describes her project, the Voices of Asheville Oral History Collection. She discusses her interest in obtaining a broader understanding of history.  Several aspects of this area's history intrigued her, such as the effects of the Depression, the TB epidemic, and the two World Wars.  She talks about members of the community whose stories were valuable sources of information, her interest in racial issues and changes in attitudes over the years, and her desire to obtain the histories of all types of people in the community.  She describes the methods that she uses for all of her interviews, and talks about how she makes her subjects feel comfortable enough to give their stories.  She also discusses the experiences that led her to become involved with oral histories.  She discusses her family and her plans for the future.

Publisher

D. H. Ramsey Library Special Collections, University of North Carolina at Asheville, NC, 28804

Contributor

Date

Electronic Record Issued: 2002-05-14

Type

Sound ; Text ; Image

Format

Physical Description: 17-page abstract ; 1 90-minute audiocassette and 1 copy ; 5 color photographs ; newspaper articles and brochures

Identifier

Source

OH-VOA J69 Do

Language

English

Relation

References: Southern Highlands Research Center Oral History Collection ; Voices of Asheville Oral History Collection

Coverage

Acquisition

Donor number: 146 ;  Date of acquisition: 1998

Processed By

Dorothy Joynes, Ruth Beard and staff

Interview Date

Interview Location

Biography

List of names

[1/248] Bingham, Jane Raoul
[1/519] [2/110] Buchanan, Bill
[2/85] Caldwell, Thelma
[1/60] Carter, Garrett
[1/599] Coggins, George
[1/153] Collington, Hazel
[1/21] [1/487] Colton, Marie
[1/21] [1/487] Colton, Henry
[1/44] Daugherty, Robert
[1/44] Fisher, Sgt. Charles
[2/intro] Ginsberg, Allen
[1/153] Greenlee, Tyrone
[1/153] Harrison, Lucy
[1/141] Jones, Minnie
[1/97] Joynes, Estelle Digges
[2/153] Joynes, Leslie
[1/97] [2/153] Joynes, Leslie Jr.
[2/73] Lawrence, Betty
[1/599] [2/190] McGuire, Roger
[2/253] Monteath Garage
[1/248] Ownbey, Elmer
[2/73] Rhine, Zoë
[1/60] Robinson, Henry
[1/12] [1/248] [2/85] Ryan, Florence
[1/278] Shepard, Katharine Bynum
[1/539] [2/108] Silveri, Louis
[1/12] Stanard, Wanda
[1/202] Tessier, Mitzi
[1/44] Thomas, Col. Alfred
[1/153] Tomes, O. T.
[2/73] [2/120] Toms, John
[1/44] Weir, Stefan
[1/141] Williams, Mary
[1/278] Wolfe, Thomas
[1/342] Whitesides, Alfred
[1/342] Whitesides, Shirley
[2/73] Wright, Ann

Side 1: 

[12] I started with the older residents who had stories of historic significance (Florence Ryan was a suffragist involved in the merging of the black and white YWCA's and Wanda Stanard, then 101, told of early days and the Children's Welfare League) (see Ryan and Stanard tapes)

[21] People in their 70's and 80's could talk about the TB period and WWII. If they were older they could also discuss WWI. From the Coltons I learned about their involvement in city and state government but my emphasis in all interviews is on Asheville. In interviewing people from all backgrounds - doctors, lawyers, mailman, truck driver - I have (see Henry and Marie and Colton tape) tried to "square the compass."

[44] I learned about the ROTC at Asheville High, and while talking with Col. Alfred Thomas and Sgt. Charles Fisher, met Thomas Daugherty, a 17-year-old student involved in the Marine activity. After taping him I contacted Stefan Weir who was editor of the school newspaper. These young men expressed their views on the local situation. I look forward to interviewing two black girls who work at Wendy's and a woman who had decided to move back to Mars Hill because of local crime. (see Daugherty and Weir Tapes).

[57] Racial problems are important to cover.

[60] Attitude changes - from dress, treatment of men towards women, the threat of handguns and reaction from the rebellion of the 70's - are factors to be explored. I am reviewing Vietnam experiences in preparation for an interview with a veteran. Black history and churches, well covered by Henry Robinson in the paper, will be my next interest (see Garrett Carter tape).

[76] In looking for a person to tape I look first at the vocation: i.e. police, farmer, delivery man, then whether or not they are a native, and their age.

[91] My husband Leslie Joynes was born here 78 years ago at 608 Biltmore Ave. His parents moved to Fresno, CA, when he was 2, but for many years he and his mother came back to visit during the summer. Our 5 children live on the East Coast and, remembering the green mountains, we decided to move here.

[97] Twenty years ago we brought Les' mother (Estelle Digges Joynes) to Deerfield and spent 6 weeks at Grove Park Inn. The hotel was, at that time run by Jack Tar and had not been brought up to its present standards. We had our 10-year-old son with us, Les had the car and, aside from going to Wall Street to buy books, I saw little of the city.

[113] Though I knew little of Asheville from our visit I learned about the changes that had taken place - freeway, dislocation of blacks with the redevelopment and the housing projects.

[124] The older blacks told about their close community where children were watched and cared for. Grandmothers were often the ones to watch the children while the mothers did housework. The teachers, educated out of Asheville, cared about the students and the kids were kept in line. Now the women do not do housework and it is rare to see a black man working on the yards.

[141] After attending a Free Speech Award I listened to Minnie Jones tell about being precinct chairman for the Democrats. With her was Mary Williams, a young black woman who was the first to get an apartment at Pisgah View as a single mother. She has since had more children (see Minnie Jones and Mary Williams tape).

[153] I started slowly in the black community and first interviewed a retired domestic and her brother (Hazel Collington and Donald Hill). Although I am careful not to "name drop" in the black community, I learned that referring to certain beloved retired teachers gave me credibility. Joining the Building Bridges program led to two good interviews about black-white relations (see Lucy Mae Harrison and Tomes-Greenlee tapes).

[161] In setting up an interview I let the person know that their experience is important to the University and, if there is hesitation, tell them that parts can easily be erased. I take pictures, a copy to be mailed to them, and make sure their children are mentioned by name on tape as they receive a tape for their family. With two machines running at the same time, I eliminate mechanical problems.

[202] When I first came to the city I read books, attended Mitzi Tessier's class at College for Seniors (see Tessier tape), rode the busses to the ends of the lines and went on two police runs. I was asked to address the History Club on Oct 2, 1992 about my project and then invited to join (see tapes). We moved here from Santa Barbara in 1991 and are planning on returning. While this is an unending project I have, by now, covered most areas. From now on I will fill in details and interview younger people and people new to the city.

[248] Most interviews last for 1.5 hours (using a 90 minute tape) which is as long as most people are comfortable talking. However, occasionally, with a short break, some are enthusiastic about continuing for another 60 minutes (I always carry extra tapes - 60 and 90's). On several occasions - Florence Ryan, Jane Bingham and Elmer Ownbey - I went back several times. Elmer, a 74-year-old postman, had delivered mail all over the city before the redevelopment and relocation of natives, and was able to talk about areas that no longer exist. (see Bingham and Ownbey tapes).

[269] Stories regarding the hardships due to the Depression varied and reflected the parents position. Men who worked in city administration or with the railroad managed well. Farmers, accustomed to bartering, did not suffer.

[278] Another area of importance to city history was the TB epidemic. Because Switzerland had sanitariums for TB patients, it was believed that mountain air was beneficial and curative. People flocked to the area to fill boarding houses and Katharine Bynum Shepard's mother brought in cows (see Shepard tape) from New Jersey so the soldiers, who would return from WWI trenches with TB, would have milk. As the risk of exposure was better understood, deputy sheriffs forced TB sufferers to leave the community and go to a hospital. (see Sorrell's tape)

[342] Alfred and Shirley Whitesides told me about their dreams during the 70's and how discouraged they are with the black situation today. Alfred's father let him drink from the "white" water fountain and found the water had the same taste. His father had to sweep under desks, he sits behind one in a First National Bank. However, when a client made an appointment by phone and came to the bank and saw he was black, there was a look of surprise, which hurt. Shirley teaches art classes and is now dealing with "crack" babies and is concerned about AIDS (this is an interview one must hear) (see Whitesides tape).

[366] There is, as we well know, an overall cultural shift in social relations. This is probably not unique to Asheville.

[377] At the risk of over-simplification I feel there are three kinds of Ashevillians - those who have not gone beyond the mountains - and don't want to; those who have gone away to college, war, or abroad and want to return; and those who are escaping bitter weather but still want seasons or have found Florida too hot, crowded and crime-ridden.

[401] I have tried, through interviewing to show the tapestry of the city over the last hundred years - from all walks of life, backgrounds, races and ages.

[421] [I show Janet my card with logo explaining that the partially opened flower is a symbol of the early relationship which opens as the interview progresses.] The card, giving UNCA with my name as volunteer gives credibility while, at the same time shows that I hold no official paid position.

[431] Pack Library was interested in oral histories if they were transcribed verbatim. I have found this an onerous task and the reading flat and dull. Facts regarding content is available in this format but the real value is in listening to the voice.

[442] Before starting an interview I ask for a signed release and take photos. It takes a few minutes to set up the machines, find an electrical outlet, position chairs so that the distance is comfortable (not side by side) the light not intensive or directly in the subject's eyes, pets are removed (if possible) and outside noises eliminated. During these few minutes we become acquainted and I give a rough review of the purpose of the interview and the areas we will be discussing. By the time I have tested the tapes to be sure they are recording, put the date and names on the beginning of side one, we are ready.

[487] There are many ways of making contacts - very few refuse. I know what I'm looking for - the area, era, past position, importance to the history of the city - and have done research in the library. I never contact people in political positions but, by attending meetings, introduce myself and say I will contact them when they are out of office. I ran into Marie Colton in the grocery store, reminded her of our brief meeting following a talk, and said I would call her later. When I set a date I asked that her husband Henry Colton be there also - so had two interviews in one.

[519] I learned about the Southern Highlands Research Center, made a date with the curator Bill Buchanan, took letters of recommendation from Carmel, California and Santa Barbara, California, and asked for a job. I would supply the tapes and photos, use the UNCA name for identification, but by using the word "volunteer," felt the university would not feel responsible.

[539] During the 1970's a visiting professor interviewed 48 people and lists 83 tapes, however these were transcribed by students and not all of them were turned in. I wrote Louis Silveri when I started this project and asked about his criteria and procedure (see correspondence and his list of interviews - also see his interview by me).

[570] Silveri was particularly interested in the backwoods people whose stories had never been told.

[599] George Coggins and Roger McGuire gave valuable overviews of city history and visions for the future. Roger, looked on as the greatest booster for Pack Place, refers to Asheville as a beautiful donut with a hole in the middle. By redeveloping the center, life will return to downtown. (see Coggins and McGuire tapes).

Side 2:

In Santa Barbara I belong to a women's group which has been meeting every Monday for over 25 years. Interests range from Howl by Allen Ginsberg and Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf to subjects discussed by professors visiting the university. One Monday a woman, who had obtained her degree by learning how to craft gold in Africa, agreed to wear her velvet and show her jewelry to the members and invited interested artists. To our dismay the temperature reached 103 degrees and she arrived in a cotton dress saying that she couldn't wear her velvet so would talk about her experiences as an oral historian. I became intrigued with the idea and took a course through Adult Education.

[2/51] Eleven years ago I joined the Oral Historians in the Santa Barbara Historical Society where early natives - land grant Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese and Japanese as well as long-time residents from all walks of life were interviewed.

[2/60] After serving on the National Board of the Junior League, I took courses at the University of Delaware in Sociology, which gave me a background for this work.

[2/73] My method is to keep a list of potential interviewees who will represent a particular area and period and, with the help of the librarians in North Carolina Room of the Pack Library (Zoë Rhine and Anne Wright), research the clipping files, largely compiled by John Toms and Betty Lawrence when they worked there (see their Toms and Lawrence tapes).

[2/85] I wanted to obtain stories about the beginning of integration and the merging of the black and white YWCA through the eyes of Florence Ryan and Thelma Caldwell (see their tapes). National organizations were not of specific interest unless they were introduced to the city by a person I could interview (i.e. League of Women Voters and Girl Scouts) (see Marjorie Lockwood and Katharine Shepard).

[2/108] When Louis Silveri came to town I interviewed him (see his tape). He told me that he often saw the people he had interviewed, and I read his list to him to refresh his memory.

[2/110] When I talked with Bill Buchanan, who was in charge of the Southern Highlands Research Center, Special Collections, I told him what I wanted to do on a volunteer basis and would need to make up a card for his approval using the University name and the word "volunteer."

[2/120] When we lived in Carmel, as a Hospice volunteer, I taped families for their personal possession. In return a donation was mailed to a special account with Hospice. When there was enough money in this fund I withdrew it, and purchased tape recorders to be given to Hospice for patients. As I told John Toms, I bear the cost which is a great deal less than taking golf lessons!

[2/146] We lived in Santa Barbara thirty years.

[2/153] All of my university tapes are available on request - end of Webb interview.

Addendum on 2/14/95 with John Toms interviewing:

I was born in 1920, married in 1940, had 4 children and divorced in 1955. At the University of California in Santa Barbara I discovered Sociology and became intrigued with the way communities are woven into an intricate fabric. Leslie Joynes and I were married in 1960, and have a son Leslie Jr. Les retired 22 years ago and, after having lived in Santa Barbara for 30 years decided to move to Asheville to be closer to our grown children who live up and down the east coast. We are going to move back to Santa Barbara, and I'm using all my energy to round out my project "Voices of Asheville."

[2/182] It is thrilling to be able to learn about the city, which is large enough to be diverse with deep roots and small enough to be encompassed by one person.

[2/190] Newcomers arrive with ideas from other parts of the country; natives, who remember the city's double-dip Depression, are naturally cautious. The tension between preservation, restoration, and beautification on one side and signs and commercialism on the other is to be expected. However, the good humor and lack of resentment is unusually high. People new to the area and natives care about the community and dedicate themselves to making the city vibrant. Roger McGuire's dream about the beautiful "center of the donut" is taking place.

[2/224] As a member of the Unitarian church I was asked to give a workshop on interviewing techniques and work with the History Committee. Since Unitarians are known to be active in community affairs we agreed to pool our resources, interviewing long-time members about church involvement and community activities - thus doubling our coverage. This has thrown my project out of balance but I have tried to compensate by covering the Baptist, Sufi, black, Catholic, Baha'i and Islamic Center.

[2/253] I am constantly looking for blanks in the tapestry that I haven't covered. I wanted to find out what happened to all the full-service gas stations that used to dot most city corners and discovered the Monteath Garage. (see Robert and Barbara Buchanan tape)

[2/260] My husband was born here and visited his grandparents every summer until he was in his teens. He found that few relatives were left when he moved here. I had no roots so, aside from visits from children and grandchildren, I had time to explore the city. I started interviewing the oldest natives with particular interest in the TB era, first and second World Wars, Depression, Vietnam War, attitudes of the baby boomers and later the teenagers.

[2/310] In the few years that we have been here I have sensed increased energy in the city. It has been a real privilege to meet so many people involved in the future of Asheville. Newcomers tell their reasons for moving here and old timers describe their parts in creating the past. Having worked as a volunteer in many capacities, this project has been for me the culmination of all my experiences - and a great privilege.

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